Everybody else has Unlimited Jumpseat, Not Delta

[Sailpilot]

42 seats just left while I sit here watching the Delta MD-88 push-back. Everybody has unlimited jumpseats, which Delta enjoys off-line, but Delta screws you on the "reach-around"! I had an Extra Airlines??? pilot show before me, now I sit here for 3.5 hours till the next flight. We take unlimited Pilots, Fa's, dispatchers, mechanics, etc.

I have had 90% of the DAL capts. disregard the 1 jumpseat rule (thanks guys) because we take unlimited riders. I think we should stick to the true meaning of Recip agreement. You take 1 and we take 1, you take unlimited and we take unlimited. They sure are nice coming in our cockpit (all of them), but when it's their turn to return the favor, they smirk while they push-back leaving you at the gate after your 5 days away.

I have Delta friends (I try not to claim that in public), they're good guys, but I am just stating the truth about the Recip jumpseat agreement.

 

[CA1900]

While I don't like the one-jumpseater limit, I think characterizing the Delta pilots as "smirking while they push-back leaving you at the gate" is more than a little bit melodramatic.

Last time I couldn't get on the jumpseat (due to a weight restriction, I believe it was), the captain of that Delta flight came up the jetway and found me in the boarding area to personally apologize that he couldn't make it work. A class act by a true professional that I really appreciated.

And I assure you, not "everybody else" has unlimited jumpseats. Not even close.

 

[ultrarunner]

Hey dude, it 'aint the pilots fault. Get your JS coordinator on the horn with their JS coordinator, and let them work it out.

DALPA is lucky they have the JS to give at all. Can you even remember when the Delta JS were management controlled?!

 

[SellingDirt]

I have to agree with SailPilot. Everyone else is switched to the unlimited (the right thing to do) except for Delta. I've carried plenty of DA guys and it's time they start returning the favor. If enough pilots pushed the issue on their end, things could get done...

 

[32LT10]

Probably a good idea. Can we get the RJ airlines to make sure there is an actual cockpit jumpseat available on those weight restricted airplanes? If your airplane can not take one of our guys why should we take you?

 

[Sailpilot]

While I don't like the one-jumpseater limit, I think characterizing the Delta pilots as "smirking while they push-back leaving you at the gate" is more than a little bit melodramatic.

.

Sorry the Smirk was as I asked the capt for the ride and explained that I have been allowed before.

I also do not want this as a jumpseat war thread, I am just stating that if it's not important to them to have the unlimited jumpseating, then let them amend the policy.

It is not a blanket policy of 1 jumpseater, they allow SWA and AA but no one else? The capt stated that it was because those Airlines took unlimited DAL jumps. I tried to explain that we did too... thats when the smirk came out.

 

[Sailpilot]

Hey dude, it 'aint the pilots fault. Get your JS coordinator on the horn with their JS coordinator, and let them work it out.

DALPA is lucky they have the JS to give at all. Can you even remember when the Delta JS were management controlled?!

I'm glad you said that,

DAL Recip to JB states that the agreement is "Recip and interchangable" nothing about limit. If it's interchangable, then JB's states that "all availible seats are jumpseats". If they are interchangable then the only limit stated was unlimited between the 2 contracts?

Forgive the spelling.

 

[BID]

I've been left behind as well, about 30 open seats in the back. We give them unlimted J/S. Now if you are employed with AMR or SWA you get unlimited J/S on Delta. Why them and not others? DFW commuters, I can only assume. We have lost so much in this industry so I hope DAL is able to join the pack and allow unlimited J/S.

Now if the TA at Delta passes, I believe it will allow, CAL, NWA and another carrier to have unlimited J/S?

 

[100LL... Again!]

I guess it's easy to be smirky when you've made it where you want to be.
I suppose they feel that there is no need to reciprocate. After all, their negotiating capital need only be spent on themselves.

No wonder this profession is in tatters.

 

[filejw]

Just maybe there is a few more things on the negotiating committees list ahead of unlimited j/s. And I don't think NWA have unlimited off line j/s either. Hell most the time if they are not CASS I never see or hear from them anyway.

 

[AbOvo]

At some airlines the roadblock to unlimited jumpseats has nothing to do with the pilots. The customer service agents get all huffy because they see pilots flying around for free on the jumpseat.

Personally I have to smirk a little bit when flight attendants get all wound up over jumpseat policies. Many of them don't know why the jumpseating was started in the first place.

 

[Wildmanny]

Guys:

I've heard from someone in the know at Delta that this is an ongoing problem within DAL and that their ALPA is working it hard to fix it. The issue is money to buy all the proper CASS stuff that needs to be in place.

I agree completely though, it is a bummer getting left behind. Next up on deck, we should hammer the feeder carriers to all get on board with CASS so that we can all travel, everywhere, on every feeder and mainline.

Good luck!

 

[PGTB]

At some airlines the roadblock to unlimited jumpseats has nothing to do with the pilots. The customer service agents get all huffy because they see pilots flying around for free on the jumpseat.

Personally I have to smirk a little bit when flight attendants get all wound up over jumpseat policies. Many of them don't know why the jumpseating was started in the first place.

Why was jumpseating started in teh first place?

 

[mamba20]

Your beef isnt with the pilots, as commuters we have to do what we can to help each other out. What goes around comes around. Your beef is with DL's company policy about only allowing 1 jumper. Because of this fact, I wont even consider DL when I'm non-reving.

How about rather then complaining about it on an internet message board you write a letter to your and theirs jumpseat commitee and see if anything can be done about it. I think you make a very valid point and that their policy is outdated.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Hey dude, it 'aint the pilots fault. Get your JS coordinator on the horn with their JS coordinator, and let them work it out.

DALPA is lucky they have the JS to give at all. Can you even remember when the Delta JS were management controlled?!

DAL is one of the slowest in offering jumpseats...they lag.... DAL was one of the last to offer Off line...

When DALPA negotiated their last concessionary they had a great opportunity to get unlimited and offer to all what they have been enjoying for so long...

Now, with DAL coming to pilots again.... its time to ask DALPA...won't you help a brother as he has helped you....

It has nothing to do with jumpseat coordinators and everything to do with the MEC and negotiating committee....

 

[twinbeech]

32, Yeah you are right that it sucks that once in a very long while the Cannuck piece 'o crap can't take the weight. (Or more than likely the CG) The thing is that when that is happening, we are packed to the gills. When we see a "real airplane" go out with 30 seats open without our arses in it, that burns a little worse. You should know that at least at the regional that I work for, we will do more than we probably should to get you on. We know it is not you, as well as you should know that it is not us when we can't take you. But it sure would be nice if you would help everyone out on getting your people to adopt the unlimited policy. We are more than happy to scratch your back, all we are looking for is a little reach around.

 

[clickclickboom]

my adventure

got to the gate plane was full with delta pilot listed in the jumpseat.. He saw me there came up said hello took me to the gate agent and had me listed on the js while he went space available.. A delta pilot shouldnt have to allow an non delta pilot to ride js to make it work BUT it was greatly appreciated.

The Delta pilots are working to solve this.. Sorry you had a bad day.. I know how you feel after a long 5 day

 

[32LT10]

. But it sure would be nice if you would help everyone out on getting your people to adopt the unlimited policy. We are more than happy to scratch your back, all we are looking for is a little reach around.

My people? Listen beech, I don't work for DL. My company has an unlimited agreement and we pack the empty seats accordingly. However, we are talking about jumpseats it would be nice if the actual cockpit jumpseat would be open on a RJ. If I can let you and all of your RJ flying friends sit in my cockpit would it not be acceptable to believe the same when our pilots come over to ride the RJ?

This issue is particularly a problem with the guys I know that commute on Eagle out of ORD and SKYW EMB"s on the west coast.

 

[32LT10]

Everybody has unlimited jumpseats, which Delta enjoys off-line, but Delta screws you on the "reach-around"! I had an Extra Airlines??? pilot show before me, now I sit here for 3.5 hours till the next flight.

Does CAL and NWA take unlimited jumpseaters?

Also, is JBLU pilot more entitled to ride than an Xtra Airline pilot? Do you have a higher classification with DL than xtra? If an Xtra guy showed up first on your full flight for the last jumpseat and a DL guy showed up last, would you bump the xtra pilot for the DL guy? Or do you have a first come first served policy?

 

[twinbeech]

32, Unfortunately I am unable to speak for those two companies. As a matter of fact, due to what happened at my company, we are no longer able to see many cities west of the Mississippi. I will say however, that (at least at AWAC) it is not a problem of us not being allowed to, or being inconsiderate. The CRJ is a severely nose heavy a/c especially once the feds decided that people got a little fatter. We just started a new w&b program back on May 2nd which has helped out our handicap tremendously. Most of us used to use some voodoo whenever we could get away with it to make the numbers work even before. With the new program, things have gotten MUCH easier. No matter what company you work for, we are all in the same boat. AWAC was one of the first regionals to go CASS and as soon as Airways updates their computers, we should be all set. I and all those I work with would love to welcome you aboard.

 

[Sailpilot]

Does CAL and NWA take unlimited jumpseaters?

Also, is JBLU pilot more entitled to ride than an Xtra Airline pilot? Do you have a higher classification with DL than xtra? If an Xtra guy showed up first on your full flight for the last jumpseat and a DL guy showed up last, would you bump the xtra pilot for the DL guy? Or do you have a first come first served policy?

32,

I forgot to add you to ignore, can we just play like I have already done that? Your airline takes unlimted JS because they have "Unlimited Available". I am joking, I have many friends at UAL and wish them well. You are just a D!ck however, you bash others small loss while acting like UAL's Huge loss is just a clerical error? I do not wish to engage in conversation with you.

 

[32LT10]

32,

I forgot to add you to ignore, can we just play like I have already done that? Your airline takes unlimted JS because they have "Unlimited Available". I am joking, I have many friends at UAL and wish them well. You are just a D!ck however, you bash others small loss while acting like UAL's Huge loss is just a clerical error? I do not wish to engage in conversation with you.

Why not answer the question? Are you better than an xtra airways pilot when it comes to riding on another carrier? Your response is in line with what I would expect from your group.

We are talking jumpseats, not losses and if you want to debate LF I would be happy to compare those numbers also. Either way both of our companies lost money on high LF last quarter. If losses prevent you from discussing your superiority complex then I am surprised you would even attempt to ride DL. Didn't they lose 2.1 bill. in the 1stQ?

As for the smirk. I get the gist this guy was probably justified in his smirk as it applies to your presentation of the issue here on the forum and your response. The DL/B6 battle for JFK is heating up and I suspect this activity may continue.

 

[labbats]

Does CAL and NWA take unlimited jumpseaters?

Also, is JBLU pilot more entitled to ride than an Xtra Airline pilot? Do you have a higher classification with DL than xtra? If an Xtra guy showed up first on your full flight for the last jumpseat and a DL guy showed up last, would you bump the xtra pilot for the DL guy? Or do you have a first come first served policy?

I assume by your tagline at the bottom that you are former TWA. I suggest you pick up the phone and call one of your fellow 400 pilots riding in Eagle's captain seat and have them explain to you how weight restriction works.

 

[32LT10]

I assume by your tagline at the bottom that you are former TWA. I suggest you pick up the phone and call one of your fellow 400 pilots riding in Eagle's captain seat and have them explain to you how weight restriction works.

No I am not former TWA. That is just a reminder for G4G5 on here that likes to bash my company. Just a reminder to him about his own company.

 

[aussiefly]

No I am not former TWA. That is just a reminder for G4G5 on here that likes to bash my company. Just a reminder to him about his own company.

Everybody just ignore this guy as he is nothing but an old fool.I know quite a few UAL guys and they are all good guys but 32 takes the cake as one of the biggest losers around.

 

[Lake Alice]

Does CAL and NWA take unlimited jumpseaters?

Also, is JBLU pilot more entitled to ride than an Xtra Airline pilot? Do you have a higher classification with DL than xtra? If an Xtra guy showed up first on your full flight for the last jumpseat and a DL guy showed up last, would you bump the xtra pilot for the DL guy? Or do you have a first come first served policy?

NOW HEAR THIS!!!

Friday, May 19, 2006
Effective immediately: All Regional Airlines must remove 2 full fare passengers or cap a flight in order to maintain 2 seats open at all times. This directive is required to accomodate 32LT10 and his ego. At no time should 32LT10 be denied the cockpit jumpseat or a seat in the cabin. Please adjust your weight and balance calculations accordingly. Failure to comply with this directive will result in 32LT10 directly speaking to you.


Can someone with a little cash in their pocket just pay this guy to go away?

 

[flx757]

"This guy" exists just to annoy you, regional pilots and other JetBlue pilots. The fact that you let him do just that is simply more incentive for him to continue to do so.

 

[TexaSWA]

Sorry the Smirk was as I asked the capt for the ride and explained that I have been allowed before.

quote]

The smirk was undoubtedly because of the "I have been allowed before". Dont try to get someone to break a company regulation by telling them "well, the last guy did it". You probably would have had a ride had you just kept your mouth shut.

Anyone else see this my way?

 

[32LT10]

NOW HEAR THIS!!!

Can someone with a little cash in their pocket just pay this guy to go away?

Alice,

If everytime you tried to jumpseat on a full flight you were told the cockpit seat was unavailable due to "wt. restrictions" would you walk away and be happy? From the information sailpilot left, the B6'ers feel they are above the other carriers and should be boarded first so I am going to go out on a limb and guess that if this DL flight had been wt. restricted and the cockpit seat left empty he would have left a little diatribe on here about how unfair DL was to not fudge the numbers to get him on. I am sure he would use the "the last guy did it for me!" defense.

This is not about me. I don't commute, unless you count my car and a bit of a drive to the airport. However, it is just incredible that my carrier can carry OMC's on almost every flight and yet we can not expect the same from those we carry. Where is that being unreasonable? Your boy was just going on and on about reciprocal agreements and how unfair it was that Dl takes advantage of unlimited yet does not give it in return. When I mention that the RJ agreements are one side you claim to need to issue a memo? WTF?

Perhaps if we all as individuals signed jumpseat agreements with each other pilot from the other carriers we could negotiate a better deal. Sort of a independent jumpseat contractor idea. You grease the skids with a Dl pilot, wash his car or tote his bags and he takes you anytime he has an empty seat.

I suppose sailpilot could have said he would clean the cabin upon arrival and that might have gotten him the competitive edge over the xtra pilot.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

42 seats just left while I sit here watching the Delta MD-88 push-back. Everybody has unlimited jumpseats, which Delta enjoys off-line, but Delta screws you on the "reach-around"! I had an Extra Airlines??? pilot show before me, now I sit here for 3.5 hours till the next flight. We take unlimited Pilots, Fa's, dispatchers, mechanics, etc.

I have had 90% of the DAL capts. disregard the 1 jumpseat rule (thanks guys) because we take unlimited riders. I think we should stick to the true meaning of Recip agreement. You take 1 and we take 1, you take unlimited and we take unlimited. They sure are nice coming in our cockpit (all of them), but when it's their turn to return the favor, they smirk while they push-back leaving you at the gate after your 5 days away.

I have Delta friends (I try not to claim that in public), they're good guys, but I am just stating the truth about the Recip jumpseat agreement.

Sailor,

You’re smoking a big fatty if you think putting on more than one JS – unless company blessed “flow through” agreement SWA/AA - is entirely up to the captain. If you don’t physically sit in the JS, where are you? In the cabin with a seat assigned by the AGENT. Believe me – the agents know the company rules and if you haven’t seen the Atlanta news in like …4 Years – management has waged a pretty effective propaganda campaign against us “greedy pilots”. After all, except for a small dispatcher union, we are the only union here and many of the other employees have swallowed the line that DALPA is to blame for all our problems. Some agents are good about seeing through the b.s. and help out other pilots in cases like yours, but most agents can’t stand us and you’re crazy if you think they’re going to put in any effort to help out another pilot – even if those seats are empty.

So, the answer is not as simple as you imply – it is not just up to the captain for the “reach around” – the agent must get onboard too and that is no easy task these days. I just got the boot last month from the JS – on line, on DAL - because the bee-otch agent claimed we were overweight and the wt/bal paperwork would not run with me in the JS – right!! In ATL - 1 hour leg on an MD-88. Door was closing, captain didn’t want to fight the fight, so I got left.

Yes, some of our captains could be more involved in helping you guys out – I have seen it work well in some cases as the agent put on 3 off-line JS on an MD-88, and I have seen the captains try and the a**hole agents just crank up the attitude and quote the book and say ‘no way’. I’m sure there are guys out there who don’t even try – like maybe your smirking dude – maybe they’ve tried and failed and have given up or maybe they’re just a wus – but the bottom line is you’re not getting on if the agent doesn’t push some buttons and that is the problem, not our pilot group.

Someone mentioned elsewhere that DALPA had the chance to get “flow through” for everyone on our TA and chose not to. Don’t know if this is true or not, but it was just 10 years ago that even Delta guys could start jump-seating on Delta! And that had to be negotiated. Flow through jumpseat is a no brainer, no cost item to all of us, but do you think Delta management treats it this way? If indeed this was at the table, I guarantee it was up for trade for something else in return.

Believe me, we are no different here than anywhere else – you have your handful of bad apples, but most are good guys/gals who do look out for other pilots, but the “reach around” at Delta is easier said than done.

Ben