Ever known a pilot that has going through drug/alcohol rehab?

[Rally]

Ever known a pilot that has going through drug/alcohol rehab? Curious how common this is in this industry. Did they get their medicals back? How long? Or just like like a phine on their medical apps.

 

[Fox-Tree]

I had a Captain paired w/ me at UAL 767 school. Showed up for a 5am sim blitzed. IP called him on it and they had it out. We still flew the sim, then the IP called ALPA. 10 hours later his blood test at the DEN medical center was still .12

He was removed from training and spent 2 years on sick/no pay status in the EAP program. Then he was back on the line.

The scary part was he flew the sim very well.

Hope that helps.

 

[Colonel Savage]

I had a Captain paired w/ me at UAL 767 school. Showed up for a 5am sim blitzed. IP called him on it and they had it out. We still flew the sim, then the IP called ALPA. 10 hours later his blood test at the DEN medical center was still .12

He was removed from training and spent 2 years on sick/no pay status in the EAP program. Then he was back on the line.

The scary part was he flew the sim very well.

Hope that helps.

Just curious...Why did the IP allow him to fly the sim while blitzed? Seems a bad call on the IP's part, since the Capt wasn't legal for regular duty, therefore not legal to train, as some airlines require.

 

[Soverytired]

Just curious...Why did the IP allow him to fly the sim while blitzed? Seems a bad call on the IP's part, since the Capt wasn't legal for regular duty, therefore not legal to train, as some airlines require.

I've always been told and trained that you have to show up for the sim exactly as if you're showing up for a shift.

And for ground school, for that matter. I think it has to do with the regulations surrounding the DOT random drug testing rules.

If you're at a scheduled event (training, shift, whatever), you're eligible to be drug and/or alcohol tested.

I agree though . . . would've been a better call to send him to professional standards or the CP office.

 

[Dave's kid]

I know a couple pilots that have gone through rehab. Neither one showed up for work under the influence (8 hours/.04). They both said they had a problem, took a medical leave of absence and spent some time not flying while they went through rehab. I think the entire process took about a year.

They were flying for a 121 carrier at the time. And after rehab they both advanced to a better 121 carrier and are still flying to this day. From what I've seen, as long as no regs are broken it isn't a career ender.

 

[Jmoney]

Rehab....

I know General Lee MUST be drunk every time he takes a seat in front of a keyboard. No rehab can fix his type of stupid....

What a chowder chugger!

 

[Fox-Tree]

Just curious...Why did the IP allow him to fly the sim while blitzed? Seems a bad call on the IP's part, since the Capt wasn't legal for regular duty, therefore not legal to train, as some airlines require.

Don't know about that. It's not a black and white issue when it's one person's opinion of intoxication against another's. I was just glad to finish the sim and check one more box for training. I think it was partly due to the fact that the IP couldn't "prove" it at the time. Once he got ALPA in the loop, they sent the pilot out to the medical center for a blood test.

Also, UAL's FOM didn't specify sim duty/training as restricted to their "12 hour rule". This was changed immediately after this incident. That may have been inherent in the current regs(not sure), but they spelled it out with no questions after this.

 

[Rally]

I had a Captain paired w/ me at UAL 767 school. Showed up for a 5am sim blitzed. IP called him on it and they had it out. We still flew the sim, then the IP called ALPA. 10 hours later his blood test at the DEN medical center was still .12

He was removed from training and spent 2 years on sick/no pay status in the EAP program. Then he was back on the line.

The scary part was he flew the sim very well.

Hope that helps.

He had to be at a .30 or so at the time of the sim holy moly. That is nuts.

 

[tomgoodman]

Help is available

This union/airline/FAA program has saved many careers, and probably many lives.

http://www.himsprogram.com/

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I agree with Tom. If you have any questions about hims, I worked with ALPA and the hims program. I strongly recommend it.
Also it is a good idea to discuss rehab with ALPA before you return to work. There are some legal issues associated with it.

 

[Ty Webb]

Wow . . . . hard to believe that anyone could actually show up at a Training Center in that kind of condition. Sounds like the IP did him a hell of a favor calling ALPA and not the Company.

It sounds like in the end, it worked out the way it was supposed to. . . . I have to wonder, though, if he showed uplike that in the Sim, how was he showing up on the Line . . .. ?

 

[waveflyer]

a favor?

It's a great thing that we look out for each other in this career-- even when our own judgment and attitudes are failing us. Maybe not most=- but so many good people will have some period of time in their career that is really rough- stemming from all kinds of issues be it divorce, medical/cancer/heart, etc, alcohol/drugs- life happens- and these programs have helped save the career of a whole lot of good people.

Be strong- it's not acceptable- but use the resources available and get people help.

 

[Lear70]

Ever known a pilot that has going through drug/alcohol rehab? Curious how common this is in this industry. Did they get their medicals back? How long? Or just like like a phine on their medical apps.

I didn't understand the last sentence at all.

I've known two who have been to rehab, one for alcohol, one for prescription pain meds (Hydrocodone).

Pilots have a relatively high incidence of substance abuse as compared to other professional fields, but not as high as attorneys and physicians. Many of them don't take anything at work, but are blitzed within minutes of leaving the aircraft, keep personal bottles/pills stashed in their bags, and often don't socialize with the crew because they know they're going to get hammered.

As far as information specific on returning to the line, it's a pretty in-depth process, especially if you go through your HIMS personnel. If you take yourself out of flying and go out on short-term disability while putting yourself through a rehab program, no one knows anything about it in most cases, but that's a mistake.

Like any substance abuse, you need help afterwards for reinforcement periodically, and that can only come from people who are trained to help if you want any real success.

As far as timelines go, I think each case is a little different, but I've heard anywhere from 30 days to 60 days after the initial "program" is done, with regular screenings along the way. The initial program can be 7 days to 3 months. It all depends on what's wrong and how bad the addiction is.

Remember, all HIMS contact is completely confidential. There is no "penalty" or "double-secret probation" for calling your HIMS program manager and asking these questions directly. They work for the union, not the company.

Intervening for a family member or friend is one of the hardest things you will ever do, and also one of the most rewarding if you're successful in assisting them to seek help.

Good luck!

 

[BLing]

Ive met a few that need to go to rehab...

 

[Rally]

Is this HIMS program just for airline pilots unions etc or just pilots in general? Wonder if someone is unemployed/furloughed or between airline jobs do they have to wait the two LOOOOONG years?

 

[Lear70]

Is this HIMS program just for airline pilots unions etc or just pilots in general? Wonder if someone is unemployed/furloughed or between airline jobs do they have to wait the two LOOOOONG years?

Wait for what for 2 years? Airline probation is one year.

The HIMS program is an airline pilot union thing. If you need treatment and you have health insurance, they'll usually big up a large portion, if not all, of the cost of the program.

If you're not in the airlines, I would ask AOPA's Aeromedical for advice.

 

[sinkrate]

After you declare an alcohol/drug dependency problem the FAA would prefer you to enter a treatment/monitoring program. This is true for any chronic illness such as diabetes, heart disease, etc. If you do enter an accepted program you can have your medical back in as little as six months. If you do not enter an FAA recognized program it will frequently take years before the FAA will issue a Medical to you again. ALPA has a program for dependency, HIMMS, that has returned pilots to work in six months. The success rate at five years is over 80% where the success rate for people that do not enter a program is less than 20%. The clinics and Doctors involved in this program are contractors that also take patients from all walks of life. Find an AME that has a practice that caters to airline pilots and he may have a list of clinics. One other possible source is AOPA, like Lear 70 said. Without entering a treatment/monitoring program the odds are stacked against you. Not only is the FAA Aeromedical branch familiar with them so is every employer you will interview with in this industry.

 

[Rally]

I am not talking about me in particular. For the record. I was reading something on leftseat saying something to the effect that most pilots don't seek treatment till they have withdrawls at the controls. My question is if they are hospitalized for related conditions from the withdrawls is that a actual alcohol abuse. They are treated and released. Their medical remains valid, but next time they renew they have to disclose the hospitalization and why. Is this when your up crap creek? What I'd love to know is how many people do these programs then just plain lie on their apps.

 

[Lear70]

I am not talking about me in particular. For the record. I was reading something on leftseat saying something to the effect that most pilots don't seek treatment till they have withdrawls at the controls. My question is if they are hospitalized for related conditions from the withdrawls is that a actual alcohol abuse.

If they are abusing alcohol badly enough to have withdrawals WHILE FLYING, then it's an addiction. It's considered an "illness" and it's illegal to be flying with "withdrawal" symptoms.

Most pilots don't seek treatment until they either get scared by something they did while they're flying or they get cornered by a crewmember who says "call in sick and get help or I'm calling the Chief Pilot" or a family member intervenes before either of those two happen.

They are treated and released. Their medical remains valid, but next time they renew they have to disclose the hospitalization and why. Is this when your up crap creek?

In a nutshell, yes. If you have any hospitalization, doctor's visit, or surgery, the FAA is going to scrutinize your app with a magnifying glass, and you're going to have a hard time of it.

ANY time you're going to have ANY kind of procedure or treatment that you will disclose on your medical, seek assistance from ALPA or AOPA Aeromedical FIRST. Can't stress that enough.

What I'd love to know is how many people do these programs then just plain lie on their apps.

I know of at least one. I'd imagine it's more common than not. There's a LOT of things that will get your ticket punched for 6 months to a year or more including kidney stones, seeking a doctor for any dizzy spells, vision issues besides basic glasses, depression, etc.

This is the main reason that my flight surgeon isn't my Primary Care Physician. I don't want the FAA having that easy of access to my non-aviation medical information. I've never had to hide anything and certainly wouldn't advocate hiding a safety-affecting medical issue, but any of you who have ever had to deal with the bureaucracy that is the FAA with a large rectal scope understand the dangers.

Bad, bad juju can happen when you report things on your medical. Make sure you ask a professional BEFORE you start doing something with a doctor that could jeopardize your career.

 

[Rally]

Looks like my buddy is in for some interesting times.....he's only a private pilot yet plenty of time to get sorted out for this downswing in the economy.

 

[Skater]

Ever known a pilot that has going through drug/alcohol rehab?

Were you drunk when you writing this?

 

[roughneck]

We still flew the sim, then the IP called ALPA. 10 hours later his blood test at the DEN medical center was still .12

Maybe he wasn't drunk at the sim at all. Maybe the jackass instructor had a problem with this guy because he knew about him messing around with his wife. He called him out after the sim and the pilot decided to go get drunk.

10 hours later ALPA called the guy after they heard from the pissed off instructor and ordered him to go get a drug/alcohol test. He still had some alcohol in his system from his post training drunk fest.

Just an idea. Don't hang the guy without knowing the details.

 

[BigMeat]

I smelled alchohol when I was typing this. Must be the beer I puked into my keyboard.....J/K I am glad that we do have programs like this though. Why do they call it HIMS what about HERS?

 

[AAflyer]

After you declare an alcohol/drug dependency problem the FAA would prefer you to enter a treatment/monitoring program. This is true for any chronic illness such as diabetes, heart disease, etc. If you do enter an accepted program you can have your medical back in as little as six months. If you do not enter an FAA recognized program it will frequently take years before the FAA will issue a Medical to you again. ALPA has a program for dependency, HIMMS, that has returned pilots to work in six months. The success rate at five years is over 80% where the success rate for people that do not enter a program is less than 20%. The clinics and Doctors involved in this program are contractors that also take patients from all walks of life. Find an AME that has a practice that caters to airline pilots and he may have a list of clinics. One other possible source is AOPA, like Lear 70 said. Without entering a treatment/monitoring program the odds are stacked against you. Not only is the FAA Aeromedical branch familiar with them so is every employer you will interview with in this industry.

People many times confuse the 2 years from having a 2 or more MVAs and not being eligible for a medical than dealing with a alcohol addiction program.

WHile some airlines are able to have their pilots back in the cockpit in six months, the average is closer to a year. This is after many events have been checked.

Documented AA attendance
Company Meetings
Continuing individual and group aftercare
A battery of nuero psychological testing
Individual psychological testing.

After all this a First class medical exam is given and then the paperwork is submitted to the FAA for approval.

If approved a Special Issuance Medical is issued, however there is ALMOST ALWAYS a 3-5 monitoring period where you must have a medical sponsor that can monitor that you continue to meet the requirements in the Special Issuance.

Airlines pilots usually have their respective airline and AME as their sponsor.

I have a contact that deals with this. It is his own company. He works in the EAP for AA as well as dealing with individual pilots not in the employ of AA.

He has been doing this for 25+ years and KNOWS all the players and how this process works.

Feel free to give me a PM and I will give you or your friend the contact info.

Best,

AAflyer

 

[Mamma]

Ever known a pilot that has going through drug/alcohol rehab?

Were you drunk when you writing this?

http://gprime.net/game.php/drunkwalk

Try doing this drunk! Hell, try doing it sober! I made it 108m! Took me awhile though!

 

[Fox-Tree]

We still flew the sim, then the IP called ALPA. 10 hours later his blood test at the DEN medical center was still .12

Maybe he wasn't drunk at the sim at all. Maybe the jackass instructor had a problem with this guy because he knew about him messing around with his wife. He called him out after the sim and the pilot decided to go get drunk.

10 hours later ALPA called the guy after they heard from the pissed off instructor and ordered him to go get a drug/alcohol test. He still had some alcohol in his system from his post training drunk fest.

Just an idea. Don't hang the guy without knowing the details.

?? Dude,
I was sitting next to him in the briefing - a lit match would have created a small fuel/air explosion in the vicinity of his mouth. He was drunk.

Who in their right mind would go out and drink after being accused of drinking on the job?

 

[J.Otto]

Okay, so lets just say joe pilot omitted a few things on his Medical application. How is it possible for the FAA to find out that one might have seen a doctor for this or that if the applicant doesn't list it on the medical?

How common and does the FAA go searching. Also, can a previous non-aviation employer's medical records be accessible to the AME or the FAA randomly?

 

[Ted Striker]

?? Dude,
Who in their right mind would go out and drink after being accused of drinking on the job?

Joseph Hazelwood....that's his story and he stuck to it!:erm: