Europe building HYDROGEN passenger jet

jetflyer

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The EU has a project running called "Cryoplane". It wants to be the first to build hydrogen passenger jets. Airbus is involved, so it will probably become a reality.

Borrowed this information from Lorenzo at Peakoil.com
Read more on the DISCUSSION and SEE A PICTURE of this proposed future aircraft at this peakoil.com thread:
http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic9498.html


Check out the projects page for this aircraft here:
http://europa.eu.int/comm/research/growth/gcc/projects/in-action-cryoplane.html

The first Hydrogen Powered plane was actually just tested right here in the US! Read more here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4643575.stm

As global oil production peaks by the end of this decade and goes into decline, oil prices are going to go up uncontrollably. Oil will become less available every year after peak and will become too expensive for transportation. We all know this will mean that aircraft are going to have to change and run on different fuels. These future hydrogen planes are probably going to be the future aircraft of the world.

I can see a day when American, Delta, Northwest, United, Airtran, Southwest, US Airways, America West, Continental, Frontier, Alaska, Jet Blue, Comair, ASA, Skywest, Pinnacle, Mesa, etc. will all be flying these hydrogen-fueled aircraft.

Soon the WORLD will have no choice but to start lessening OIL USAGE because of oil production DECLINES and have to use other transportation fuels.

Read more about the SEVERE OIL PROBLEM that will strike soon from this transcript with visual-aids included from a speech by REPUBLICAN Maryland Congressman ROSCOE BARTLETT to the HOUSE on MAY 3, 2005 on PEAK OIL:
http://www.energybulletin.net/5948.html


Roscoe Bartlett actually just had a meeting with President Bush THIS LAST WEEK about this PEAK OIL PROBLEM as well. This press release is posted on the Congressman's website: http://www.bartlett.house.gov/latestnews.asp?ARTICLE2900=7308

Now there is no doubt the president knows about the TRANSPORTATION FUEL CRISIS that is about to hit the U.S and the WORLD. Matthew Simmons, advisor to CHENEY on the ENERGY POLICY back in 2001 and author of the newest and just-released book on Peak Oil, called "TWILIGHT in the DESERT, the Coming Saudi Oil Crash and the World Economy" has said that he briefed Clinton about this problem long ago and Bush when he entered office. So the President has actually known about this for a long time. Let's HOPE HE HAS A PLAN for PEAK OIL except using IRAQ's OIL!

Let's also hope the Hydrogen aircraft get built soon for passenger transportation!

Jet
 
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HalinTexas

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Note: At present time the only economically viable method of H2 is through petroleum refining. Getting it from sea water is not cost effective.
 

Juniority

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Note: At present time the only economically viable method of H2 is through petroleum refining. Getting it from sea water is not cost effective.


HalinTexas is correct,

furthermore, Hydrogen is best described as an "energy storage method" rather than a power source or fuel type (such as oil, gasoline, ethanol, electricity, or even coal). The (really tough) part of the equation is not creating a car or airplane that can use Hydrogen as its power source, its finding a cheap source of hydrogen. Not that there aren't a number of engineering challenges in a hydrogen powered vehicle, most of which are related to storage of the stuff and somehow managing to carry enough of it to get good range.

But the absolute bottom line will be finding a way to get massive quantities of hydrogen cheaply and easily. Anything else you may read related to hydrogen amounts to much ado about very little and therefore hardly worth the press it gets.
 

AZ Typed

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Someone once said the Earth was flat.

Someone once said the moon was made of cheeze.

Someone was called crazy for describing a communication method that involved no wires.

Someone once said hydrogen will not work in transportation engines, too.


food for thought, that's all
 

jetflyer

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We can use nuclear power to create the hydrogen can't we? I think a major push for nuclear power plants is going to be badly needed for the future.

Jet
 

sstearns2

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Lockheed looked into a hydrogen powered L-1011 years ago and considered hydrogen fuel for the next generation SR-71. You can read about the problems with hydrogen fuel in Kelly's book and Ben Rich's book.

The main problem with hydrogen is that is has to be stored in a well insulated, cylindrical container. No more fuel in the wings. Hydrogen storage is also difficult. You'd need a plant to liquify at every airport.

Airliner fuel efficiency has come a long way in the last 20 years. The average new vehicle sold today gets the SAME gas mileage as the average vehicle sold 20 years ago.

We are really shooting ourselves in the foot right now by wasting so much oil. We are also doing a great disservice to future generations and to the rest of the world in our generation.

My solution is to add a $3.00 per gallon gas tax, but give an income tax credit such that if you drive a car that gets 30mpg and you drive 10,000 miles per year you come out even. If you choose to drive an H2 that gets 12 mpg then you free to do that, but your going to pay for it. You come out ahead if you drive a car that gets better than 30 mpg or you drive less.

The fundamental problem with gas prices is that they are related to the cost of production and nothing (at least in the US) is added to reflect the fact that oil is a limited resource. That's fundamentally why we waste so much oil in the US.

Scott
 

aeronautic1

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Sheesh

I remember when gasoline was 29 cents a gallon and love was 60 cents away.


Geez, now I can't afford either one!
 

jetflyer

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SStearns,

I wish we would have had the gas taxes like EUROPE since the '70s. We'd be in much better shape now.

People in the US would be living closer to work like they do in Europe. They'd be driving smaller cars like in Europe. There would also be GIGANTIC MASS TRANSIT systems (trains, busses, etc.) in almost every US city.

The US is going to be most affected by the COMING high oil prices ($200/barrel and higher in 5 years or so). I hope we can get our acts together and find solutions to this problem. We're not going to be Republicans and Democrats when the Sh-t hits the fan. We're going to be Americans trying to solve a SERIOUS problem.

Nobody is going to care about ideological things like pumping the oil out of the Alaska Wildlife Refuge, Higher Fuel economy standards, or Nuclear energy plants anymore. We're going to have to worry about survival of our nation.

Aviation is an important part of the world economies. Hopefully we can find a way to keep the planes flying in 30 years when the oil is almost completely gone.

PEAK OIL is coming soon and is going to cause oil prices to skyrocket to unprecedented levels. Read more below.
Websites for PEAK OIL introduction:
Transcript of a speech in Congress from Maryland Republican Roscoe Bartlett:
http://www.energybulletin.net/5948.html
and
www.yubanet.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/8/15426
and
www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net
and here is a recent Associated press article:
http://home.peoplepc.com/psp/newsst...50528-950973917
Chat group dedicated to peak oil discussion:
www.peakoil.com

Good luck Aviation, USA, and the World economies,
Jet
 
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Dennis Miller

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unwashed said:
Can you say Hindenberg.:eek:

Es ist buchstabiertes Hindenburg, Sie dummes moron!
 

mrtoy2

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There is an interesting article about the Hindenburg that if I can find it I will repost. It basically said that the hydrogen in the Hindenburg propably vented into the atmosphere and contributed little if any to the fire. It said that what burned was the skin of the blimp itself. It was painted silver to control the heating of the envelope by the sun. The paint was made with the same materials found in rocket fuels. Furthermore, it speculated that the hydrogen wouldn't have burned that quickly.

For what it's worth...

edit... I found the site: http://www.bullnet.co.uk/shops/test/hydrogen.htm
 
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Wiggums

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A smarter way to go when oil runs out is to use hydrogen to power land-based vehicles. Then liquefy coal to burn in aircraft. If we generate all our electricity using nuclear and solar power we will have many years of coal left.


We are nearing peak oil, but it's not going to be as dramatic as some predict. The first thing that happens when oil goes $100-200/barrell is that we have a major recession, affecting us China greatly. Demand for oil will go down worldwide.
 

klhoard

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So Jetflyer, how are the shares in "Magnetic Powerplants" selling? . . .
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Have you looked into this cool new technology - Cold Fusion??
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jetflyer

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Khloard,
This is about hydrogen aircraft. That was a different thread that we talked about cold fusion. Talk on that thread if you want to talk about fusion.
Jet
 

jetflyer

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Hydrogen is supposed to be safer and less flamable than gasoline.

It will be expensive to run on hydrogen fuel, but then again gasoline is going to get a lot more expensive than the hydrogen SOON.

Jet
 

klhoard

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Why can't we use the "Magnetic Powerplants" to run our airpanes??
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Or to make Hydrogen?
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jetflyer

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Klhoard,

I know what you're talking about now. I reviewed that other thread. I posted an article on something that might "SAVE US through a TECHNOLOGICAL BREAKTHROUGH".

You thought I had stock in this company and was just trying to profit. There is no company! It was information about research done by scientists. They think they have found a great new form of energy.

It was a Zero Point Energy article. It's a new technology that will take years to ramp up and IN THEORY can pull energy out of thin air. The government has been testing this energy through the TESLA project up in Alaska for decades.

It may help in the future, but really we need good 'ole NUCLEAR power now. GE and Warren Buffet are both making big investments in Nuclear power. The U.S. government is pushing Nuc Power in their Energy Policies.

Nuclear Power is ECO-FRIENDLY and PROVEN. Plants can be built in 3-5 years instead of 10 as in the past.

There are 104 Nuclear power Plants in the U.S. producing 20% of our power.

The old ones are safe, can be built even safer now, and can be used to PRODUCE THE HYDROGEN TO POWER FUTURE AUTOMOBILES AND AIRCRAFT.

Let's hope Hydrogen aircraft are built soon. If a lot of us around 30, like myself, want to have a career at 60-65 we better hope a different aircraft or engine that runs on a different fuel is built!!

Jet
 

LAXSaabdude

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jetflyer said:
Hydrogen is supposed to be safer and less flamable than gasoline.Jet
Exactly. In a car or plane crash, liquid gasoline spills all over the wreckage and the victims, and then burns. Hydrogen, being the lightest element, escapes into the air and rises quickly. There may be a momentary flash at the accident site, which could cause some burns to the victims, but it will rapidly dissipate upwards.

LAXSaabdude.
 

Draginass

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Europe already tried a passenger aircraft that used hydrogen. Had a pretty bad accident a while back.
 

LAXSaabdude

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Draginass said:
Europe already tried a passenger aircraft that used hydrogen. Had a pretty bad accident a while back.
And by my recollection, most of the fatalities were attributable to falling or being crushed by the wreckage. As someone pointed out earlier, the initial hydrogen combustion went upward, and the rest of the combustion was the flammable outer skin burning.

LAXSaabdude.
 
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