"Err... Roger that Memphis Center... Sorry 'bout that."

[apdsm]

Looks like somebody on here has military "issues"!

 

[minitour]

I don't know if it helps but...I was having some radio problems the other night and as I was coming in, appologised to Tower just in case I caused a P.I.T.A. and all he said was "It Happens"

I guess that sums it up...people have bad days, both pilots and controlers...maybe the guy is goin through a divorce or his dog died or something we don't know...could be understaffed...I'd say don't let it bother ya and if he's REALLY getting on ya and rippin ya a new one just pause a few seconds...key the mike...give him a "roger" REAL quick...should shut him up...but it lets him know you're listening...

I dunno...as Eyeore would say..."Hope It Helped, but Probably Not"

-mini

 

[dasmith]

We're on the verge of a crisis in our ATC system. The FAA has limited hiring in the last few years which means fewer folks in the pipeline. Meanwhile there's a pile of folks retiring in the next 5 years without the replacements in the system. There's not a lot of trained people out there sitting and waiting for ATC jobs like us pilots. That's gonna hurt us regardless of the privatization issues lurking around the corner.

So, they're all over worked, stressed out. All this when FAA makes organization re-engineering a daily effort.

ds

 

[de727ups]

"no reason for anyone getting $hitty on the radios."

"There's no reason for anyone getting $hitty on the radios."

Amen to that. I've been pretty embarrassed about the way my co-crewmembers have worked the radio a few times. Pilots who yell at ATC when they are just doing their job are jerks.

You should hear the what controllers say about pilots off the freq....used to crack me up. I few well placed "A$$hole" comments as soon as ATC unkeys the mike.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

CameronW,

Sir, I agree with RP, you are indeed a real gentleman !

Regards,
FD

 

[Vector4fun]

Cameron,

Sorry for being late responding. I'd like to make some comments.



I'm a Terminal controller, not a Center type. I should also add I never regularly work Buffs, but used to, years ago occasionally, when they'd have an exercise in/around my airspace. And third, I just spent 5 hours flying the length of Memphis Center's airspace from TYS to the DFW area in a Cessna.


First, I'd always prefer you be on VHF rather than UHF. I know it's a lot of chatter you may not want to listen to, but it's VERY frustrating to have two or more pilots blocking each other on freq all the time. That goes for the guys who transmit .3 seconds after flipping the switch to a new freq as well. I often listen for 15-20 seconds before transmitting when I'm flying.

Second, and I don't want you to take any of this personal in any way, but 20 years ago, *MY* experience only, Buff drivers could be some of the biggest jerks in the sky at times. (from our perspective). They didn't seem to understand that just because the Air Force planned a peacetime exercise that was to put their B-52 on a runway for departure at *exactly* 11:52Z, followed by climbout over X fix at *exactly* 12:07Z, followed by etc. etc.; that it didn't necessarily follow that civilian ATC was going to shut down all other traffic to enable them to complete said exercise *exactly* on their secret schedule. I say "secret" because they **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** sure never shared it with us until they called to complain about missing it. In other words, communication and coordination regarding mission objectives and priorities was not only lacking, it was often non-existant.

I won't mention what I said on the air a couple times about the technicians fiddling with jamming gear on the ramp........

Let me hasten to add that I can't recall a "jerk" Buff driver over the last 10 years, but there's still the occasional problem with coordination and communication, and it's as likely on our end as yours. Just don't assume the controller really knows what you're trying to accomplish.


Third, I listened to several MEM Center guys working the trainers around Columbus, (I stopped for gas at UOX), and I could tell they were a bit frazzled by all the requests from the AF trainers, but they never sounded "rude" to me, just a little harried. It's hard to communicate complex request clearly at times, just as it's hard to communicate a complex clearance so an AF student understands. Also, I work with a couple guys who just find it impossible to put a "smile" in their voice on frequency. It's just their manner, and they sound like they're grumpy all the time. They don't intend to, it's just their way when speaking in "ATC". I even sound cross at times when the frequency it getting out of hand. It's the fastest, easiest way to get everyone's attention. Would rather not, but there it is just the same. I also could tell they were a bit peeved about being shut down for a time to ATL, because they were slowing and holding some Airliners.

By all means, call the Center and talk to a Supe if you're treated badly. Some of the biggest "pissin" contests I ever heard on freq were just a complete mis-understanding about what each was trying to say while complying with the reccommended phraseology in the AIM. No joke.


Perhaps it's just a case of some older guys who still have a "hard-on" for some of your predecessors over in Shreveport? I dunno. We also have a few who have reached the stage they need to retire and do something else. They just can't seem to "pull the trigger". I wonder sometimes, how close I am to that point........

 

[ArcticFlier]

Rodzilla

I'm lucky I worked at LAX approach control for a year, so I've seen ATC stuff from both sides.

Hey de727ups,

Did you know a guy at the LAX facility named Rod? I think he's in ORD now. He was a 'pleasure' to work with.

AF

 

[Sam Fisher]

Cameron,

As others have said, you clearly show professional demeanor. I'd enjoy sharing the cockpit with you. With that said, if you don't want to transmit on victor, why not transmit on victor but listen on uniform? This way, you can cut down on the "blocked" responses but at the same time, utilize your reasoning for talking on uniform. Just a thought.

Sam

 

[Ravengirl]

Meanwhile there's a pile of folks retiring in the next 5 years without the replacements in the system. There's not a lot of trained people out there sitting and waiting for ATC jobs like us pilots.

Actually...there are some of us (around 375 currently on the CTI list, plus military veterans, etc.) waiting to be hired by the FAA...it's just that the FAA isn't doing anything in the way of getting us into the system. It's frustrating


Stephanie

 

[ArcticFlier]

I know what you're saying Ravengirl. I've got two friends that work ATC in the SAN area. (One at SAN one at CRQ). Both are trying to get to LAX TRACON. They're on the list.............no money to get them there.


AF

 

[ATCER]

I know what you're saying Ravengirl. I've got two friends that work ATC in the SAN area. (One at SAN one at CRQ). Both are trying to get to LAX TRACON. They're on the list.............no money to get them there.


AF

Good point... it's not just hiring... ALL movement inside the agency has ground to a stop.

I think it's the ATO that has stalled things a bit... all these new managers of the new regions are not going to approve a thing until they know what they are running and how much $$$ they have to do it.

 

[ATCER]

CameronW,

Sir, I agree with RP, you are indeed a real gentleman !

Regards,
FD

I second that, CameronW... you've handled this very well and I have no doubt that you'll get this ironed out. For those following along I PM'd him some conctact info for ZME and basically told him what you guys have said here, try and make a site visit, talk to the controllers and see what the problems might be.

I agree that there is no excuse for yelling at a pilot on frequency, but I will add that once you make a visit to the facility you'll see there is a lot going on at any given sector.

Don't take it personal !

Keep us updated.

 

[CWASaab]

Cameron,

With that said, if you don't want to transmit on victor, why not transmit on victor but listen on uniform? This way, you can cut down on the "blocked" responses but at the same time, utilize your reasoning for talking on uniform. Just a thought.

Sam

Since no one else has jumped on this yet, I think I will. Listening on uniform and transmitting on victor is a nice idea to make life better for CameronW, but will not work. It would probably make matters worse, as the BUFF guys will have no idea who might be transmitting on victor, and would likely end up stepping on an Airline/GA transmission. I think the best victor radio solution would be to tx and rx on one radio.

*As an aside I once had the pleasure of having an MSP Center controller just about lose it because some GA guy had been using two radios, one to talk to center and one to monitor CTAF in EAU. When cleared off center freq. the guy failed to change tx to CTAF yet managed to turn down the volume of ATC. He kept transmitting his position, and asking other aircraft he was hearing on CTAF for updates on their positions, all on MSP center's primary freq. for getting airplanes sequenced over an arrival gate. The guy was probably wondering why no one at EAU would respond to him. I eventually got his attention on the CTAF freq. and let him know what he was doing, but it took a while and in the meantime those of us with red tails were trying to fit several hundred airplanes into MSP in as little time as possible, and the radios just squeled as the guy reported entering downwind and stepped on another instruction from the poor controller.

I think the best advice has come from Tony C. and those with similar suggestions: open the lines of communication.

All that being said, I just this week found myself turning to the other guy in the cockpit and commenting on the possibility of traffic levels being back to near all time highs as we transversed a Chicago Center sector worked by a controller with an abnormally high stress level. Maybe it is just the summer schedules, but it seems like we are finished with the slack we have seen since the fall of '01. I think those on both ends of the radio would be well served to keep this in mind, and try to be patient. Otherwise the next few years could be pretty rough.

 

[PHX767]

Cameron,

When I was at 8AF HQ we had a civil service FAA liason guy on the DOO staff. He was a great help on a number of issues. Maybe he can spread oil on the water. The wing DO shop will have a guy that can call him. Then there are those periodic ATC meetings, your tower guys may be of use there.

Just as everyone else suggested, use VHF when possible, then go to UHF for the tactical portion.

We used to get them all grumbly when we wanted random air refueling with a 2,000 foot block everywhere we went. They'll get over it.

 

[Flyin Tony]

I Love the B-52

and i have only had a few run in's with ATC, but now most of them know me because I fly with them everyday at 6:00 and most of the time get the same guys and girl on Socal and Josha. But they do kinda get mad when I ask them if i can get a IFR well im just out side of the LAX B airspace. But that i can understand.

Dont know if this helped any

 

[100LL... Again!]

Try this phrase:


"Say operating initials"

Might work.

 

[Sam Fisher]

Since no one else has jumped on this yet, I think I will. Listening on uniform and transmitting on victor is a nice idea to make life better for CameronW, but will not work. It would probably make matters worse, as the BUFF guys will have no idea who might be transmitting on victor, and would likely end up stepping on an Airline/GA transmission. I think the best victor radio solution would be to tx and rx on one radio.

Oops,

I totally meant to write what you wrote. I switched them up. What I meant to say was just that - transmit on uniform but listen on victor. Must have written that one late. Good catch.

Sam

 

[Dubya]

Pisss and Cheerios?

350....milk is much better in Cheerios.

Cameron...good topic, excellent, professional posts.

W