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ERJ Drivers........
- Thread starter Paul McCartney
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AAsRedHeadedbro
Havin' fun at the track!
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Posts
- 141
I agree with most of the above posts.
The radar works fine. Not great, but fine. It definitely requires the most work from the pilot with regard to tilt, gain, range management and interpretation of any of the regional airplanes that I have flown (EMJ, ATR and SF3), but that's because it has the smallest dish of the three. I have never poked my nose into a cell with this radar and I've flown all over the Deep South, the East, the Midwest, and Upper Midwest during thunderstorm season for the last few years in this jet.
The biggest problem I see is lack of real radar knowledge. I can't tell you how many times I've had the other pilot tell me "Look. There's a cell right out in front of us, but this P.O.S. radar's not painting' it!" When I've looked over at his screen, he's been right. However, four feet over to his left, my screen's been painting the cell for the past thirty miles. The difference? The other guy usually had his tilt set too high. This radar will barely paint the frozen upper reaches of a cell at all but it will paint the lower, wetter parts of a cell pretty well. Tilt the radar down into the meat of a cell and stay away from anything painting any color when you're up in the high flight levels and you'll be just fine. It's worked fine for me these past few years.
The radar works fine. Not great, but fine. It definitely requires the most work from the pilot with regard to tilt, gain, range management and interpretation of any of the regional airplanes that I have flown (EMJ, ATR and SF3), but that's because it has the smallest dish of the three. I have never poked my nose into a cell with this radar and I've flown all over the Deep South, the East, the Midwest, and Upper Midwest during thunderstorm season for the last few years in this jet.
The biggest problem I see is lack of real radar knowledge. I can't tell you how many times I've had the other pilot tell me "Look. There's a cell right out in front of us, but this P.O.S. radar's not painting' it!" When I've looked over at his screen, he's been right. However, four feet over to his left, my screen's been painting the cell for the past thirty miles. The difference? The other guy usually had his tilt set too high. This radar will barely paint the frozen upper reaches of a cell at all but it will paint the lower, wetter parts of a cell pretty well. Tilt the radar down into the meat of a cell and stay away from anything painting any color when you're up in the high flight levels and you'll be just fine. It's worked fine for me these past few years.
AAsRedHeadedbro
Havin' fun at the track!
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Posts
- 141
The radar itself is good. Its greatest technical limitation is the small antenna.
A ten inch antenna has an 8 degree beam width. So at 60 NM, the beam is 8 miles in diameter. It is difficult to paint detail at ranges beyond about 25-30 NM. In close, the wide beam is less of a factor. Used properly, you can get a decent general picture at longer ranges, but within about 25 NM you can tell the difference between an uncomfortable ride and a dangerous cell.
The real problem is the lack of understanding of how a radar (any radar) works.
At high altitude, tilting out the ground clutter at 35000 feet directs the beam through the upper portion of the cloud. Most of the moisture at these levels is frozen. Frozen precipitation is not a good reflector. Add to that the fact that the wide beam dilutes the finite amount of transmitted radar energy over a larger area, and the hazard goes undetected. The airplane penetrates a 45000 foot tall thunderstorm at 35000 feet and worlds get rocked. Obviously, since the radar never painted the weather the radar is bad, right?
If you take 1.5X altitude in 1000's (35000 feet= 35X1.5=52.5, then round to 50) and tilt the radar to get a ground return at that distance, the beam will be directed through the lower portions if the weather where the liquid precip will reflect efficiently. Any target that appears closer than the displayed ground return is precip. Any target that leaves a shadow in the ground return is dangerous. This works well above about 10-15000 feet with any radar/antenna combination, but is especially important on a 145 with its nearsightedness due to the wide beam.
Below 10000 the ground return is too close to the airplane for this technique to be useful, but you are low enough that under all but the most extreme circumstances (thunderstorms with snow instead of rain do occur) the precip is liquid and will reflect radar energy efficiently. But also, below 10000 you are most likely in the terminal area where the wide beam width is less of a factor. It is helpful to momentarily tilt down to look for attenuation shadows.
That was the long version. The short version is that the 145 radar works perfectly well in the hands of someone who knows how to use it and knows its limitations. You can plan at long range and you can knife fight at close range.
A ten inch antenna has an 8 degree beam width. So at 60 NM, the beam is 8 miles in diameter. It is difficult to paint detail at ranges beyond about 25-30 NM. In close, the wide beam is less of a factor. Used properly, you can get a decent general picture at longer ranges, but within about 25 NM you can tell the difference between an uncomfortable ride and a dangerous cell.
The real problem is the lack of understanding of how a radar (any radar) works.
At high altitude, tilting out the ground clutter at 35000 feet directs the beam through the upper portion of the cloud. Most of the moisture at these levels is frozen. Frozen precipitation is not a good reflector. Add to that the fact that the wide beam dilutes the finite amount of transmitted radar energy over a larger area, and the hazard goes undetected. The airplane penetrates a 45000 foot tall thunderstorm at 35000 feet and worlds get rocked. Obviously, since the radar never painted the weather the radar is bad, right?
If you take 1.5X altitude in 1000's (35000 feet= 35X1.5=52.5, then round to 50) and tilt the radar to get a ground return at that distance, the beam will be directed through the lower portions if the weather where the liquid precip will reflect efficiently. Any target that appears closer than the displayed ground return is precip. Any target that leaves a shadow in the ground return is dangerous. This works well above about 10-15000 feet with any radar/antenna combination, but is especially important on a 145 with its nearsightedness due to the wide beam.
Below 10000 the ground return is too close to the airplane for this technique to be useful, but you are low enough that under all but the most extreme circumstances (thunderstorms with snow instead of rain do occur) the precip is liquid and will reflect radar energy efficiently. But also, below 10000 you are most likely in the terminal area where the wide beam width is less of a factor. It is helpful to momentarily tilt down to look for attenuation shadows.
That was the long version. The short version is that the 145 radar works perfectly well in the hands of someone who knows how to use it and knows its limitations. You can plan at long range and you can knife fight at close range.
Last edited:
Rottweiller said:
About ten years ago all of us had to endure those infamous tapes at our company.For some reason the tapes just went away.
Same here. But wait! The course is now available for home use! Seriously though - If your employer won't pony up it will be the best money you ever spend on your education. I've suffered through the course twice. And if one more FO asks me to teach him radar in one flight I'll puke. It amazes how many pilots don't know the difference between convective weather and rain. Maybe they should learn a little about weather while they are at it.
http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/13324
dojetdriver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2004
- Posts
- 1,998
Same EFIS, but it's running the 1000 series and not the 2000 like the the Dornier. NO VNAV, VHF preview mode, auto ID for the ILS, vertical profile display, etc. Can't bug MDA/DA, no audible VTA
VIVA THE 328!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No VNAV on the 145? What's that little magenta glideslope that pops up? I guess baby VNAV?
dojetdriver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2004
- Posts
- 1,998
Pretty much. Or in a more technical term, it has what's known as VNAV advisory ONLY, as opposed to actual VNAV capability. When it gets a button on the MCP labeled "VNAV" and has the ability to couple and follow climb/descent profiles/schedules either from what's on the arrival/approach procedure or what's programmed in the PERF INIT, it's not really a VNAV system.
The CRJ got the same thing on the EICAS 2000 mod and it was referred to as the "snowflake".
100% correct. I have seen nearly 70% of pilots who incorrectly use or misinterpret radar imagery. I have take many hours of airborne radar studies and practical use and can tell you with confidence that 70% of you are misusing/poorly manipulating radar. It is the least understood and most improperly used instrument on-board.
Do yourself a favor and educate yourself on radar technology. It could save your life or at minimum embarrassment from driving into an area that could have been avoided with proper equipment understanding.
pilotkppsg
Frattastic
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2004
- Posts
- 225
Its where we keep the ASA management kool aid to dump it over Atlanta suburbs like Alpharetta and Kennesaw.
Seriously, it's a ventral tank
UnstableAviator
Dual Given.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2003
- Posts
- 303
All good advice in this thread. I've been flying the ERJ for nearly 7 years, and after applying techniques I've learned through research and practical experience, I still think it leaves a lot to be desired. Of course it will paint the obvious storms that will cause damage/injury, and during the busy thunderstorm season it works quite well. During this time of year (Nov for example) with embedded cells and low freezing level, it might as well be turned off and don't plan on seeing anything more than 25 miles out. My worst turbulence encounters have been in the upper midwest or northeast during the seasonal transition. It's sometimes disconserting to hear mainline aircraft asking for deviations while we blindly plow along through whatever lies ahead. As before, at least the really hazardous weather is reflective enough to avoid.
Honeywell Primus 660 data
http://www.honeywell.com/sites/serv...t?docid=D7921978A-D1D0-2320-11C5-6BB6D3CB72D8
The new Honeywell Intuvue series (G650, A380, 777, 737NG,etc) sure looks impressive. I'm not sure what the A320 series use, but when jumpseating I'm usually amazed at the detail and distance at which it can show even weak non-hazardous precip.
http://www.newfromhoneywell.com/
Honeywell Primus 660 data
http://www.honeywell.com/sites/serv...t?docid=D7921978A-D1D0-2320-11C5-6BB6D3CB72D8
The new Honeywell Intuvue series (G650, A380, 777, 737NG,etc) sure looks impressive. I'm not sure what the A320 series use, but when jumpseating I'm usually amazed at the detail and distance at which it can show even weak non-hazardous precip.
http://www.newfromhoneywell.com/
Here is Archie's site: www.radar4pilots.com
I know him quite well and he would be happy to answer questions on the EMB radar. You will also notice some of the pictures are from the EMB.
http://radar4pilots.com
I know him quite well and he would be happy to answer questions on the EMB radar. You will also notice some of the pictures are from the EMB.
http://radar4pilots.com
SpauldingSmails
Aboard the sloop.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2005
- Posts
- 1,278
Tilt control is essential. Ranging down as you approach is invaluable as well for evaluating size, intensity, and deviation strategy. You lose a lot of resolution keeping it out at 100+ range when working around cells.
My favorite: The guy who insists we deviate around the city of Chicago everytime you fly by Lake Michigan.
My favorite: The guy who insists we deviate around the city of Chicago everytime you fly by Lake Michigan.
AAsRedHeadedbro
Havin' fun at the track!
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Posts
- 141
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