ERJ-170......cost?..maint?

[DairyAir]

just curious if anyone knows what the purchase price is a well as cost per hour. I rode on one from PIT-ATL the other day and I must say I was very impressed. It sure makes the CRJ look bad. More comfortable seats big windows, quiet, large overheads, and the flight deck was not bad either. If it turns out to be as cheap as the CRJ to operate I fear that all of us CRJ200 drivers will be lookin for work.

 

[ACAFACVG]

I talked to a US Air jumpseater on the way home yesterday and he said they are having major problems with the 170s. Apparently there have been frequent cancellations due to mechanicals and the computerized fly by wire systems are having frequent problems. One problem he said they're having is if the aircraft is shut down and you bump the yoke it will crash the system and it takes 40 minutes to "reboot" the system. He also said Embraer is keeping several tech reps in PIT just to keep them flying. Hopefully these are just teething problems and things will get better..........

 

[Palerider957]

Major problems are pretty normal for a new aircraft. We had tons of teething problems with the CRJ700. Eventually they'll figure the plane out and it will probably be a great aircraft.

 

[TWAER]

Yes, new aircraft have tons of problems. As I recall the 777 was grounded many times for various problems. It will probably take them at least a year to work out most of the bugs.

 

[Be200pilot]

I fear that all of us CRJ200 drivers will be lookin for work.

i think the 170 is in a different league than the CRJ200

 

[Prop Trash]

I don't think Embraer uses "ERJ" to designate the 170. Since it can be used as a mainline aircraft, they settled with EMB-170. It would be like calling the 717 a BRJ.

 

[blott]

My type rating says EMB-145 not ERJ...

 

[Skyboss]

Latest Form 41 Data:

(Based on MidAtlantic Use - Hull Cost and Fuel Costs will vary based on utilization and stage length)

Fuel Burn/HR: 473 GPH
Monthly Lease: $152,126

Hourly Costs:

Aircraft: $644
Crew: $699 (Training Costs ammoratized the first year)
Fuel: $510
Maintenance: $160
Direct Labor: $44

Net Direct Cost: $2057

Average Stage: 547
Average Trip Cost (Incl IDOC): $4404.91
Seat Cost:$63
ASM Cost: $.1150

 

[dugan jones]

hey prop trash, my type says " EMB-145 and ERJ-170"....just to let you know

 

[Chip]

Go to www.embraer.com look at their press releases. Of the flight hours that have been flown by the 40- 170's around the world, it looks as if the 170 has managed to burn 2% less fuel than what Embraer originally estimated. Thats huge saving for airlines who fly them over the course of one year. Thats also rare for a manufacturer to over-estimate a new product in terms of fuel burn....

 

[Rule of thumb]

Sao Paulo is about to become a very busy place with the oders expected in Early 2005 for the EMB170/190 family of aircraft.XJT to convert their EMB145 options to 170/190 ?

 

[Bart Simpson]

MidAtlantic came up with a new name for the 170.
They now call it the 180 because of all the returns to gate.

 

[Smoked Toilet]

Crew $699... right...

what does a captain make on the guppy killer?

right....

 

[jtf]

I believe the captain pay at MidAtlantic is a direct copy of the Eagle 70 seat payrates- except that all pilots start at first year pay reguardless of their years of seniority at other airlines. The cost for flight crews that was posted was including the cost of training them added to their salaries over the first year- training aint cheap, but their actual hourly wages sure are. The guys who became captains under the jets for jobs deals were at least able to fly 50 seaters at 50 seat rates, but keeping their years of seniority (they should all be top of the pay scale at whatever company they went to- significantly more money than they would be making at MidAtlantic).

 

[Skyboss]

Crew $699... right...

what does a captain make on the guppy killer?

right....

The crew cost includes the amortization cost of training for the first year. Being able to read helps. This is the same reason 717 crews at Midwest were over $1k the first year.

Another thing you have to factor into the equation is annual block hours, crew utilization, crew efficiency (22% overhead cost) and crew benefits overhead (34% overhead cost).

The equation:

Aircraft Utilization/Max Annual Block Hours = Minimum Crews per A/C
Minimimum Crews * Hourly Rate = Base
Base * 1.22 = Crew Efficiency Factor
Crew Efficiency Factor * 1.34 = Actual Rate

So, if the aircraft is used 3600 hours per year, you need 3.6 crews per aircraft. Worker Efficiency increases that requirement to 4.39 crews per aircraft. If the pay rate is $120/Hr (example) then the actual rate is $120*4.39/3.6 = $146.06 Hr. Add in benefits at 34% and the actual pay rate is $196.76. Add to that teh cabin crew rate which is also included in that figure and you're up around $250 an hour. Now, take the crew training costs (roughly $10-15K per crew member/per aircraft) and divide that by 3600. Not too difficult to hit the $699 mark is it?

It's never about straight pay.

 

[stb]

Names for the 170..

Triple J Jumbo jungle jet

 

[Smoked Toilet]

I do believe you are all missing the point on my previous reply.

Apparently there are some supporters of the guppy killer out there. Keep supporting kids. Keep lowering the bar.

We all appreciate your support. hmm....

 

[Skyboss]

It's more comfortable than a guppy and it ensures I get service into smaller cities for a reasonable fare. No one missed your point. Perhaps you should call it the next newest toy in my driveway killer?

 

[stb]

It's more comfortable than a guppy and it ensures I get service into smaller cities for a reasonable fare.

You need to look at where the planes are flying "point to point."
PHL, ORD, CLT, IAH, MCI, MKE, DFW, BOS and DCA.
I wouldnt say those are small markets.

 

[majordavid]

Keep in mind, every express carrier that flies these....the pilots that fly them are eroding their own career potential and earning potential for the near and long term future.....but congratulations anyway.....

 

[Bart Simpson]

Keep in mind, every express carrier that flies these....the pilots that fly them are eroding their own career potential and earning potential for the near and long term future.....but congratulations anyway.....

Eroding? Eroding?
What? What?
I bet the easter bunny dropped off some Word-Of-The-Day toiletpaper just for you...