Erau

[wmuflyguy]

I guess we will just have to wait until you and I are in the interview room together. Then we will see who gets the job.

Just dont act arrogant at the interview, I'm sure that will be a quick way to get shown the door.

Odd that my choice of college would mean so much, that a person who chose a different college would automatically be hired in front of me. Nevermind the other accompishments that a person has accompished in their life or the persons personaility.

Even if the person got a job, if they acted like an arrogant little S#$% in training, I'm sure they would have a short stay with that company. Now, Explain how you got terminated at the next interveiw.

Bottom Line: YOU GOT A DEGREE. Good!!

Now lets go build the flight experience and enjoy not doing homework. I sure enojoy doing both at the moment.

Now, I'm gonna go drink, it is my day off.

 

[Flyguy2k8]

HAHA that post made me laugh. Thanks. So in your opinion what is the best way to build flight time? I'm sure you will say CFI. Is there another alternative to instructing that will build flight time?


Thanks

 

[BoilerUP]

I guess we will just have to wait until you and I are in the interview room together. Then we will see who gets the job. Also while it is not traditional to use numbers in the format of "secondly" and "thirdly", it is still acceptable. Look it up, it is called an adverb. Can you really not think of anything better than to attack my grammar usage, which turned out to be correct.
We don't live in a daze here. We all realize we will have to get our hours just like everyone else. What we do realize is that the percentages are in our favor.
My father has a client who recruits for American Eagle, and a friend who recruits for Continental. Both of these men said they will hire a Riddle, or a UND grad over someone else ANY DAY, ANY TIME, and that is undisputable.

Dude, take it from somebody that knows, CHILL with the rhetoric. Its good that you are proud of your school, but don't think you are better or deserve something more than any other pilot out there because you flew airplanes that ended in Echo Romeo.

Being an ERAU grad will open doors for you that otherwise take much longer, or might not be opened at all. That is, if one remains humble and doesn't get any sort of holier-than-thou complex. There is a reason that some people don't like Riddle (or UND, or Purdue, or ________ school) grads..."They are good, but they know they are good".

I wish you the best of luck in your collegiate experience and your aviation career, but a word of advice from somebody just a couple years higher up: don't drink the school's koolaid - you have to earn everything you get, just like anybody else. Work hard, get good grades, for the love of God get your CFI-IA (if not MEI) and fly as much as you possibly can...but don't sacrifice a decent social life. The harder you work now the less you have to "pay dues" once you graduate, but you only go to college once - have a good time.

My $.02 for what it may be worth,

BoilerUP

 

[Flyguy2k8]

HAHAHA hey thanks a lot!

 

[BoilerUP]

HAHA that post made me laugh. Thanks. So in your opinion what is the best way to build flight time? I'm sure you will say CFI. Is there another alternative to instructing that will build flight time?

Instructing will make you a better, more knowedgable pilot. There is nothing in the world harder than teaching, and nothing reinforces your own knowledge better than being forced to know it well enough to impart on somebody else.

That being said, if you are dead-set against instructing, you have a few options:

1. Banner tow. Lots of options in FL, but watch out for shady operators what want you to pay for your training.

2. Traffic watch. Mainly in moderate to large cities, flying donuts for 4-6 hours every day. Build lots of time fast, but very little "quality" time (cross country, IMC, etc). I have a buddy that built 1000 hours in 18 months doing traffic watch, and he only did it part time!

3. Be lucky enough to know somebody with a plane and become their "pilot". Network as much as possible, and jump at every opportunity to fly. This is probably the toughest way to go, because its a pain in the arse to get added to somebody's insurance or make the open pilot requirement (it took an act of Congress to get me added to a local car dealer's Saratoga policy).

4. Buy your time (NOT RECOMMENDED). Once you become a commercial pilot, its just about time to quit paying for flying and start getting paid for flying. Now if you want to take a trip or something, thats different, but boreing holes in the sky is out of the question, and is very expensive. I would only recommend buying multi time for experience-building, and only then if you are splitting it with another pilot. This is a large benefit to having your CFI-CFII-MEI.

Once again, just my opinion FWIW. good luck........

 

[wmuflyguy]

HAHA that post made me laugh. Thanks. So in your opinion what is the best way to build flight time? I'm sure you will say CFI. Is there another alternative to instructing that will build flight time?

CFI'ing is one way to go, It is the route i chose, I had a great initial CFI who taught me from 0 time through the commercial and he made me want to teach with his good attitude.

I have friends that are doing a number of Different things. 2 are flying a Cardinal (i think) for a Cable company and they fly back and forth over cities with some gismo's and look for wholes in the system. They get alot of Actual and Nite experience from what i heard.

2 friends did the Gulfstream thing (ok no flame please). One i heard got hired at pinnacle. The other i have no idea if he is done yet, he jsut didnt want to flight instruct. Unfortunately, this isnt economic for me.

2 People i know got UPT slots in the military. Very tough to get in, I wish my Color vision was good enough to pass the test. I woud love try it.

1 other friend is trying for the Air National Gaurd. I keep thinking to myself i will go attempt the medical portion to see how the vision is.

Heard of poeple flying Parachuters. I am gonna look for soemthing like this next summer. Sounds like it would be fun and good expereince.

Other tips i'm using. Never turn down safety pilot time, live at the flight school if your an instructor (I'm having trouble with that one). If you instruct, be the instructor that is fun and professiona, that people like to fly with. Dont be the a$$ people dont ask to the bar.

Seems last nite is catching up with me, it looks liek an early nite. need some Silver bullets

 

[wmuflyguy]

Instructing will make you a better, more knowedgable pilot. There is nothing in the world harder than teaching, and nothing reinforces your own knowledge better than being forced to know it well enough to impart on somebody else.

Thats the TRUTH!

I'm nearing the 100 Dual given mark and i have learned an astonishing amount. You learn alot about the plane, people, yourself, and the system from teaching in it every day.

I must say instructing boosts your confidence as a pilot and increases your ability to think quickly and accurately.

I truely enjoy my job, even though i may make jokes about how much i make.

 

[wheelsup]

Other tips i'm using. Never turn down safety pilot time, live at the flight school if your an instructor (I'm having trouble with that one).

I did that for 10 months at 2 schools. Answered phones, talked people into spending money, etc. I felt like a used car salesmen...

I ended up at a school where all I do is show up for the activity and the student is all set to go with the lesson in hand, I just walk up and we go. Heck, they even do their own 141 paperwork and fill out the logbook, all I do is sign it! Pretty sweet deal, and the best part is I'm making ~$2400/month before tax. All this with a 5-day 8-5 job!

Edit: Forgot to mention this is full time (not contract employment) with benies .

Do yourself a favor and find a decent school that doesn't take advantage of the instructors...you'll be grateful .

 

[wmuflyguy]

Do yourself a favor and find a decent school that doesn't take advantage of the instructors...you'll be grateful .

Oh, i work for a rather large university, teaching under part 141. I still go flying with friends who need a safety pilot.

All i'm required to do is show up and teach, and do some paperwork on the side which i am paid for. I definately do not make as much as you do though. Is your company hiring?

Oh, I dont answer phones either.

 

[aeronautic1]

Next generation jet

Just took my first job in a next generation, fully EFIS aircraft; the Gulfstream 200 (ex-Galaxy). $42,000 (plus ben.) to start in right seat. Company paid for my $35,000 type rating. Thank you Professional Flight Training of Ft. Lauderdale for giving me my start in aviation. It's good to know that there is a monetarily different course to plot towards a rewarding aviation career.

 

[wheelsup]

Is your company hiring?

You've gotta sign a 12 month contract, which I didn't have a problem with because I'm making a ton a money and I needed the time anyway (especially the B58 time!).

If you don't care about the 12 month gig PM me.

~wheelsup

 

[montanapilot]

"I agree, but it is nice knowing that you have somewhat of an edge. "


i think you can take your elitist attitude and shove it where the sun dont shine. Airlines dont give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** where you train. You think when your sittin in front of a regional hiring board with 1500TT they are gonna care what you did in the first 250 of that?

 

[wheelsup]

The thing with going to a school like ERAU is you don't need anywhere near 1500TT to go to a regional.

American Eagle's mins for dean's list graduates is 500/50
ASA is 250 with internship
ACA used to be (before the Indy Air gig) Commercial Multi Inst. with internship

I know someone who is now an Aircrew Training Instructor with NWA (not the regional, the major) right out of his 4 year degree at ERAU with <300 TT after doing an internship there.

I went to ERAU. I chose not to exercise me AE option because I wanted more TT to go to someplace with less upgrade time.

ERAU and other name schools have other options for the low time pilot than going to a smaller community college - NOT that it's a bad choice, if you don't care about the options and want to work your way up. I wish I had the opportunity for the ASA internship, I graduated 1 year too early (2003) and it was just starting back up then.

~wheelsup

 

[U-I pilot]

I know someone who is now an Aircrew Training Instructor with NWA (not the regional, the major) right out of his 4 year degree at ERAU with <300 TT after doing an internship there.

Does this speak more to the quality of ERAU grads or the quality in the NWA trainig center?

 

[wheelsup]

Does this speak more to the quality of ERAU grads or the quality in the NWA trainig center?

Quality of the grads, of course...what did you expect me to answer.

Jealous...

~wheelsup

 

[Flyguy2k8]

Hey Wheelsup,

I like those TT mins for American Eagle, and ACA. But my god, the deans list haha. My Dad's best friend recruits for Eagle, I am going to check with him on those mins and see if I can get the first hand on that. But that sounds about right for Eagle. I've gotta get lucky somewhere...bound for SWA. They have outrageous requirements. Maybe not outrageous to everyone else but for a PPL with 100+ TT, it is.

Take care

 

[U-I pilot]

Quality of the grads, of course...what did you expect me to answer.

Jealous...

Not really. Nothing against instructing, we need tons of good ones to make great pilots, but not something I'd like to do for an extended period of time. Maybe its just my innocence speaking but I dont see NWA putting a Grad into an initial class after teach ground school for a couple years.....IMO.
If they do, all the better for the grads but....i dont see it happening.

 

[Flyguy2k8]

You know something they do here at Riddle, and I don't know whether to think its a good thing or a bad thing. You know the 250 TT required to get commercial, the FAA waives that requirement at Riddle allowing you to get commercial with no total time requirement. I thought that's pretty cool but that means that's even less time that I will have. I basiclly decided that since I will have all my ratings next year, I will get my instructor in the summer and try to get hired as a part time instructor. They get about 200 hours per year, and that would equate to about 650-700 hours. I think that's my best shot!

 

[wmuflyguy]

You know something they do here at Riddle, and I don't know whether to think its a good thing or a bad thing. You know the 250 TT required to get commercial, the FAA waives that requirement at Riddle allowing you to get commercial with no total time requirement. I thought that's pretty cool but that means that's even less time that I will have. I basiclly decided that since I will have all my ratings next year, I will get my instructor in the summer and try to get hired as a part time instructor. They get about 200 hours per year, and that would equate to about 650-700 hours. I think that's my best shot!

They do that everywhere, it is part 141 and it is somethiing like 190 hours. Just not a special ERAU thing

 

[U-I pilot]

They do that everywhere, it is part 141 and it is somethiing like 190 hours. Just not a special ERAU thing

You are right. And i think some of that time can be in simulators cause I know some students that get commercial before 190TT....scary huh?

 

[BoilerUP]

I have a 12-pack of Amberbach or Guiness (or favorite alternate beverage) to anybody who can prove my suspicion that this guy is a reserve bum somewhere messing with all us. Same case will go to anybody who can prove this guy is a true, honest-to-God ERAU student, as long as they promise to educate them on the industry. I'll throw in a copy of Hard Landing and Flying the Line Vol. 2 for towards this end...

 

[jdru25]

Ok I'm chiming in a little late with this one but, I had thought that Riddle had cancelled the program with NWA. I had known one person in that program who is now just flight instructing. Who knows.............

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

I graduated from the PRC campus in fall of '94. When I came out to visit prior to high school graduation in 91, I was told that due to the industry tides and the quality and reputation of the school that I would step into the right seat of a 737 upon graduation from Riddle. That statement was further reinforced my freshman year. We all bought it and chugged the koolaid. As graduation approached we realized that was probably just a sales pitch. I did think that the school would help me find a job though. My last semester I went into the career center and told them that I wanted to start the search. I was handed a dot-matrix printed book with addresses and contacts for flight schools. At that point I realised I could have saved a whole bunch of money by just joining AirInc or something similar. BTW - still waiting for that 737 job.

It is good to know that the school has been trying to place it's grads for the past few years. That's one promise that was broken to me, but to be fair I was young and naive. I have sinced worked in a few flight schools and understand the snake oil salesman approach.

Riddle really never opened any doors for me. My first CFI job was given to me because the last person they hired worked out so well that they wanted to try another from the same school, Riddle, and so they hired me. You could argue that Riddle opened the door and I don't really have a problem with that... but if we had both went to FlightSafety, or Westwind or the like, I think the same could have happened. I further feel that had I gotten my training at another flightschool/FBO that I could have had the opportunity to teach where I was taught. At the time, Riddle didn't readily hire it's graduates.

I wouldn't go to Riddle again. It was a big chunk of money that I'll never get back. Having said that, the Riddle I went to is much different than the one that exists today in some ways... they now stand behind their grads.

The truth is, anything can open a door. You might know somebody, be from the same small town as an interviewer, gone to the same FBO for training, or the same college as previous hires. It's how you conduct yourself in the interview and through all phases of training that sets you apart. I have flown with quite a few Riddle grads, some of them have been a pleasure to work with... others not so much. That can be true with any school, but not every school's grads have the rep for being arrogant elitist snobs... Riddle does, and to a certain extent it's well deserved. We were told that we were the best, the most highly trained, and were destined for fast planes and big paychecks. I'm flying a psuedo-fast plane, still waiting for the check... though, aren't we all? Most of us graduated expecting everybody to fall over our diploma trying to hire us. At least at that time, it didn't happen.

To those of you at ERAU now... keep the attitude in check and realize that regardless what Riddle has told you, you don't know everything! I have learned more from non-Riddlites than I have from fellow grads because our training, though good, was pretty incestuous. They had their curriculum and stuck to it, and that's fine. It wasn't until I got into the 'real world' that I realized that there are so many ways to fly an airplane other than the Riddle way. You are getting a good education for aviation, but keep your mind open and always try to learn from those outside of the Riddle fold, they can teach you a lot...

Good luck to everybody... there are a million ways to get to the airlines or whatever your career goal may be, just keep working. Hopefully when you get there, there will still be that golden ring that you worked so hard for. As it is now, it seems that everybody I fly with is trying to find another career because the industry seems to be deteriorating.

Sorry for the rant, maybe I should cut back on my coffee intake?

 

[Flyguy2k8]

To Jdru25,

In regards to the NWA program. I do not know if they still have it. My friend did it last year, got hired as an intern and now flies for NWA. He had 550 hours TT, and did not instruct. For some reason I do not think that NWA and ERAU have that anymore. There is an ACA bridge program that I believe they do have. It is pretty hard to get and it holds the possibility of instructing to get hours if they require it.

I don't think I answered your question really, but that's all I know!

 

[BoilerUP]

My friend did it last year, got hired as an intern and now flies for NWA. He had 550 hours TT, and did not instruct.

Your "friend who interned with Northwest last year" IS NOT flying for them now, and certainly not with 550TT. A colleague of mine is a NWA DC9 furlough, and your buddy would be hired last year and currently flying the line over his dead furloughed body.


FLAMEBAIT

And what a shame, it was all so believable up until this point...

 

[wheelsup]

Flyguy2k8 is talking out his @ss.

The program was a GREAT opportunity. However it never materialized.

"Daytona Beach, Fla., Nov. 6, 2001 -- Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University and Northwest Airlines announced today that they signed an agreement to implement a Dual Track Hiring Program designed to provide opportunities for Embry-Riddle graduates with a bachelor of science degree in aeronautical science to become new-hire pilots with Northwest Airlines. "

http://www.erau.edu/er/newsmedia/newsreleases/2001/northwest.html

If you care there's the whole link. However about 4-6 months after getting accepted to this, NWA canceld the "dual-track" portion and just made it an internship. The guy I knew was hired on as an Aircrew training instructor after that internship...NOT to be a pilot. However I'm sure he's got a pretty good 'in' with NWA once he gets his time up and they resume hiring.

~wheelsup

 

[Flyguy2k8]

No he's not flying for pinnacle and calling it NWA. He's flying for pinnacle and I"M calling it NWA. I guess i'm making him big, cuz he's my friend!


yall have a good one

 

[DKM]

Quote:

Trouble @ ERAU CAPT Program.

The Program Director for CAPT resigned this week.

As misguided as his direction was they are now left without direction.

www.captiscrap.com

 

[Flyguy2k8]

Yeah I can't blame you for rolling your eyes. If I was lucky enough to work for COEX (now called expressjet) if asked, I would say I worked for Continental Airlines!

 

[HAZ-MAT]

$910 a credit hour.... ouch, good luck!