endurance of a Global 6000?

[G4dude]

Isn't that what EJM is for? Won't they be managing a few G650s to cater to those diehard Gucci Jet lovers who refuse the Global?

Probably. I am a little worried you are right.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Probably. I am a little worried you are right.

Why worry, G4? I'm pretty sure you're free to apply for a job with EJM. Maybe it would be a good thing to get your foot in the door now for when they add a G650 to the fleet.

 

[imacdog]

EJM is nonunion too, G4 is always welcome to spread the Gulfstream love over there.

 

[johnsonrod]

From Netjets G450/550 to........

Slightly off topic. Probably a political Netjets "hot potato" but a few basic questions that still have not been answered for me. Please prepare your flak jackets:

Will the former NJI pilots on the Gucci Jet transition over to the Globals on a one-for-one basis or will they leave the Gulfstreams for whatever seats are available on the incoming Phenom 300s, CL300/605s, etc.? Do all current Netjets pilots have allocated seniority numbers that will be applied as the Gulfstreams depart? If you are a current (and former NJI) G450/550 pilot, what is the likelihood that you will be sitting in a Global as they arrive? Or will Gulfstream pilots basically bid whatever is available (from Beechjet to Global) based on their seniority?

Again, not trying to start a grenade launching match or heated arguments - I understand it is a sensitive issue. Just curious and trying to understand how that process will work.

PMs also welcome.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Slightly off topic. Probably a political Netjets "hot potato" but a few basic questions that still have not been answered for me. Please prepare your flak jackets:

Will the former NJI pilots on the Gucci Jet transition over to the Globals on a one-for-one basis or will they leave the Gulfstreams for whatever seats are available on the incoming Phenom 300s, CL300/605s, etc.?

While there might be some displacements from the Gulfstream to the Global, so far ALL of the Global LINE PILOT positions have been filled by straight seniority open bid. We're talking single-digit former BBJ folks and low double-digit Falcon, X, and G-200 people. Meanwhile, there are many questions and complaints in regard to how the Training, Standards, and Check Airmen positions (called Supplemental Duty Positions or SDP) have been filled thus far since a few of those positions went to relatively junior GV pilots and several more were awarded to REALLY junior GIV pilots. Seniority is only applied as a "tie breaker" when awarding those positions which of course means seniority wasn't really a factor at all. That has a lot of folks really in a twist.

Do all current Netjets pilots have allocated seniority numbers that will be applied as the Gulfstreams depart?All NJI pilots were assigned a "virtual" seniority number based on date of hire several years ago which became an actual seniority number upon full integration in late 2010.

If you are a current (and former NJI) G450/550 pilot, what is the likelihood that you will be sitting in a Global as they arrive? I place my odds of flying a Global at 1%. IF the company rigs the displacement game as described below, I MIGHT end up in a Global. Far more likely I'll end up in a CL300 after they pry my decrepit, old hands from the yoke of a 550. I've been in the 450/550/V fleet for 7 years (and the GIV for eight years before that) and hold a seniority number in the top 20% of the company.

Or will Gulfstream pilots basically bid whatever is available (from Beechjet to Global) based on their seniority? Part of this answer depends on the new contract. Right now, if I could magically be senior enough to be awarded an open Global spot, I would lose the "pay protection" that was created by an integration LOA and start being paid according to the current CBA pay scale for my years of seniority. The vast majority of GV fleet pilots would suffer a pay cut under this scenario. Now, when my fleet is placed in disposal, eventually there will be a "displacement bid." The company says "okay folks, there are "x" seats in the Global, "y" seats in the CL300, and "z" seats in the Phenom. If I'm in the displacement "window" and I bid for a particular airplane, I lose my pay protection. If, however, I DON'T bid, I will just get assigned one of the leftovers and KEEP my pay protection for a period of time (3 years, I think). Hopefully, a new contract with much higher pay rates will be in place by the time displacement rolls around so that people can stop worrying about this crap.

Again, not trying to start a grenade launching match or heated arguments - I understand it is a sensitive issue. Just curious and trying to understand how that process will work.

The fly in the ointment is, when the GIV pilots and then the GV pilots start getting displaced, the company is totally within their rights to say "okay folks, there are "x" seats in the Global and you Gulfstream guys in the displacement window are ALL being assigned to the Global and we don't care what your seniority number is. If that happens? Whoooooo boy. Open warfare. Chaos. Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.

PMs also welcome.

Answers in red.

Timing is also important here because GIV guys will probably start getting displaced later this year and I THINK most will end up in the Phenom as copilots or scattered to some of the existing fleets as holes open up. It will be a bit of a moving target since the last 450/550 isn't scheduled to go until 2018 and a LOT will change over the next five years.

Bottom line, there are a LOT of unanswered questions for us too because we don't know what games the company might play to foment continued division within the pilot group since negotiations begin in, oh yeah, a MONTH.

 

[johnsonrod]

Answers in red.

Timing is also important here because GIV guys will probably start getting displaced later this year and I THINK most will end up in the Phenom as copilots or scattered to some of the existing fleets as holes open up. It will be a bit of a moving target since the last 450/550 isn't scheduled to go until 2018 and a LOT will change over the next five years.

Bottom line, there are a LOT of unanswered questions for us too because we don't know what games the company might play to foment continued division within the pilot group since negotiations begin in, oh yeah, a MONTH.

Very thorough response! I know it is a difficult and still nebulous topic for all parties there.

Thanks

 

[rajflyboy]

Globals are awesome. Everyone will love them. Perfect machine for flying anywhere in the world. Solid, safe, stable airplane with great range, speed and comfort.

 

[CE750Driver]

Gunshotdraw, Eyers and Noe both made it very clear in Recurrent that NO NJI personel would be placed in anything but a Class 4 aircraft. I think you hit the nail on the head, but it will be the CL605, not the CL300, as the 300 is not a Class 4 airplane.

Im in the top 15 percent seniority wise, and I'm betting I won't see a larger aircraft for at least 10 years or so, as they slide the NJI personel in front of me.

It is what it is.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Gunshotdraw, Eyers and Noe both made it very clear in Recurrent that NO NJI personel would be placed in anything but a Class 4 aircraft. I think you hit the nail on the head, but it will be the CL605, not the CL300, as the 300 is not a Class 4 airplane.

Im in the top 15 percent seniority wise, and I'm betting I won't see a larger aircraft for at least 10 years or so, as they slide the NJI personel in front of me.

It is what it is.

I'm hoping the 40,000 lbs distinction will be erased in the new contract because I'd rather displace to the CL 300 than the 605. I'm also hoping the pay scale goes up enough to erase the pay protection issues that continue to serve as a source of resentment and division within the pilot group.

As for Bill and Shane, they will either game the displacement system at Jordy's direction to foment pilot division, or they will let it roll on a straight seniority basis. I have no earthly idea which way that will go. Like I said, a LOT is going to change before the last Gulfstream departs the pattern.

 

[CorpCaptain]

And we won't even talk about the billionaire from the tour before last that utterly refuses the company's every attempt at giving him a Global demo flight. He wants a share in a 650. I fear we will lose him in 2018 if/when the last 550 departs the pattern.

I have it on good authority that Gulfstream is in the deliberation process of starting another manufacturing line to get current/future 650 orders on the ramp faster. This decision was due to the high # of 6000's coming out of warranty in the next 2 years. Not sure if the NJA order will help or ultimitely hurt them in the long run.