Endeavor attrition

[Twisted Mind]

Pilot "shortage" has not been a problem yet. The biggest problem with Comair is Delta couldn't sell it because the cost structure was too high. I don't think that is a problem for Endeavor.

 

[mesaba13]

I think it is interesting listening to many talk about getting rate resets and then shutting down Endeavor. That doesn't make much sense because once the other carriers get their rates reset and start losing 200's they will have the same attrition problem as Endeavor.

The flexibility Endeavor gives Delta is huge in that they don't need to negotiate with a DCI carrier when they want to make a change. The economies of scale are a large cost savings as well because Delta is using their purchasing clout at Endeavor on everything from office supplies to benefit administration.

So for all salivating over the idea that once you take you pay cuts the Endeavor aircraft will start coming your way, you may have another thing coming.

 

[amcnd]

Why shut down endeavor? I know you want it to happen out of spite. But why would Delta want to shut down Endeavor?

Because that was the plan all along.. Delta called every DCI and asked them to be ready to take on 10-15 airplanes.. Then called them back and said, wait someone in accounting had a briliaint "rate reset" scam..... Hold that thought for a few years...

 

[jynxyjericho]

I think it is interesting listening to many talk about getting rate resets and then shutting down Endeavor. That doesn't make much sense because once the other carriers get their rates reset and start losing 200's they will have the same attrition problem as Endeavor.

The flexibility Endeavor gives Delta is huge in that they don't need to negotiate with a DCI carrier when they want to make a change. The economies of scale are a large cost savings as well because Delta is using their purchasing clout at Endeavor on everything from office supplies to benefit administration.

So for all salivating over the idea that once you take you pay cuts the Endeavor aircraft will start coming your way, you may have another thing coming.

Just remember, if it makes sense we won't do it. No one has a magic ball, and if they get this place looking too good it'll just be bought again by some other regional run by a metal midget that can't figure out "3-5 = -2" and does not equal "giant building in downtown Memphis".

Those money losing Pinnacle -900's went from us to Skywest so fast it still leaves ATL guys denying reality. PCL -200's are filling up the desert and they were some of the newer ones.

Once this airline drops the operational fences this may start looking like an airline, but it'll also mean we won't need the staff we have. I'll just pray everyone leaves of their own accord (me included) before they shut us down, part us out, or sell the operation off to some affore mentioned regional.

 

[gojo]

Because that was the plan all along.. Delta called every DCI and asked them to be ready to take on 10-15 airplanes.. Then called them back and said, wait someone in accounting had a briliaint "rate reset" scam..... Hold that thought for a few years...

Ummm, that rate re-set was set in motion several years ago by Skywest. I believe it was when they acquired ASA. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. It is my opinion that is what started the beat down from Delta. It's actually quite brilliant on Delta's part. Get several low cost contract carriers, and Skywest has to match the second lowest

 

[Twisted Mind]

Delta used the threat of shut down to extract concessions from Endeavor. Has Delta threated to shut down Endeavor either way? I am wondering because people say on here that Endeavor will shut down as if Delta has announced it's plan.

 

[gojo]

Delta used the threat of shut down to extract concessions from Endeavor. Has Delta threated to shut down Endeavor either way? I am wondering because people say on here that Endeavor will shut down as if Delta has announced it's plan.

Most of these predictions are from narrow minded people. They think they can predict the future based on Delta's reputation. They could be right, but Delta hasn't announced anything yet about shutting endeavor down. I will say that I don't trust anything the upper management at Delta says. And because of that I'm doing everything I can to get the h$ll out of here. Time will tell if I made the right decision or not with whatever I choose to do.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Ummm, that rate re-set was set in motion several years ago by Skywest. I believe it was when they acquired ASA. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. It is my opinion that is what started the beat down from Delta. It's actually quite brilliant on Delta's part. Get several low cost contract carriers, and Skywest has to match the second lowest

That is some of the value that Skywest brings into the mix. A few carriers prefer to reset their rates every year to the average, Skywest does one better.

Our "ceo" (lowercase used purposefully) believes we are delivering a product to Delta. That is how managers prefer to think, because life was simpler when we manufactured things in exchange for goods and services. However, we who are under 40, grew up understanding the American manufacturing base was dead, the economy going forward will be service based. Endeavor offers the same service as everyone else. It's the same service we offered a year ago at a rate higher than ASA's, now we do the same thing for a wage that's near bottom. A regional and it's pilots aren't special, we don't offer anything unique, we are a cog meant to be tore out and replaced when needed. I don't like that, I hate it, but God help me I can't figure out how to make a regional stand out. Roll your dice and take your shot, because it's a crap shoot.

What service Endeavor provides, it does through a bankruptcy contract, bringing in the third lowest cost per pilot. The operational price will go down even more once Delta absorbs the majority of our managerial and back of the house operations into big daddy D. Essentially we'll be a skeleton crew, who will train pilots, fix airplanes, and fly airplanes, for concessionary rates for the next 6.5 years and the few managers left will be able to sit back and keep things running day to day while drawing a huge paycheck.

Delta brought some people over with this buyout who are definitely invested in making this new regional work. However, the ceo is an idea man with no follow through, we have a bulbous operations guy who watches the operation tank day after day and cheer when we get a couple on time departures strung together in a row, a purchasing director who just parks our aircraft in the desert or gives them to Skywest/ASA, and a number of other functionaries who do anything but their job.

It's been six or eight months and we aren't any better off (from a pilot's perspective) than we were when Meenk declared BK. We are paid a hell of a lot less, and we're missing 1/3 of the seniority list to Republic, Silver, and Compass... but that's about the only difference. Oh, some of our -900's are flying at ASA for a good wage, but when we flew them for a good wage that was bad. Hard to make sense of any of this.

As long as Endeavor can keep flying airplanes for GoJet/Mesa wages (or slightly above technically) we'll be around- supposedly.

Delta used the threat of shut down to extract concessions from Endeavor. Has Delta threated to shut down Endeavor either way? I am wondering because people say on here that Endeavor will shut down as if Delta has announced it's plan.

No Delta hasn't said that, in fact they are trying to make the pilots believe that we'll be the tip of the spear for Delta's regional lift in the future. No one believes it (except for maybe 10% of the seniority list) at this company, and no one in the industry believes it because Delta has 100% of the time sold off, or knifed in the back, every regional they owned. Are future events knowable by past actions? Yes and no.

Pilots believe the world is simple. When I pull back at speed the plane will lift off unless something is SERIOUSLY wrong. When a Chapter 13 filing happens then it was all part of the plan. Management doesn't plan ahead very much, except for a few on top. Even then when they plan ahead they hire a consultant group to double check their math. Managers and high level execs are only interested in this quarter and the next quarter and they think THAT IS the 36,000ft perspective. Pilots, actually having been to 36,000ft think years in advance. Delta may continue running Endeavor for the next 15 years, and they may shut us down in 1.5 years. Delta, as a whole, doesn't really know, and Delta as a whole doesn't speak or think in one voice. Trust me, the clowns we have here believe they are here to stay to create a regional airline that is the best regional possible. They may be right, we'll see if they can fill a new hire class.

Reality is, the story here sucks. Compass will get you upgraded in 2 years. Sounds like Mesa will be the next sure thing. Everyone knows they have about 3-5 years and they HAVE to be out of the regionals before something else causes the industry to stagnate. Delta management doesn't know what 3-5 years ahead looks like unless a consultant group tells them. Management just wants us to keep putting one foot in front of the other and keep those passengers happy so they can buy a Bentley for every day of the week with money that used to go to your pension.

Advice to all? Concentrate on your career, not your profession. This airline pilot gig isn't a profession anymore, just get onto a good paying job as quickly as you can, and pray you don't get a furlough or another bankruptcy.

 

[gojo]

That is some of the value that Skywest brings into the mix. A few carriers prefer to reset their rates every year to the average, Skywest does one better.

Our "ceo" (lowercase used purposefully) believes we are delivering a product to Delta. That is how managers prefer to think, because life was simpler when we manufactured things in exchange for goods and services. However, we who are under 40, grew up understanding the American manufacturing base was dead, the economy going forward will be service based. Endeavor offers the same service as everyone else. It's the same service we offered a year ago at a rate higher than ASA's, now we do the same thing for a wage that's near bottom. A regional and it's pilots aren't special, we don't offer anything unique, we are a cog meant to be tore out and replaced when needed. I don't like that, I hate it, but God help me I can't figure out how to make a regional stand out. Roll your dice and take your shot, because it's a crap shoot.

What service Endeavor provides, it does through a bankruptcy contract, bringing in the third lowest cost per pilot. The operational price will go down even more once Delta absorbs the majority of our managerial and back of the house operations into big daddy D. Essentially we'll be a skeleton crew, who will train pilots, fix airplanes, and fly airplanes, for concessionary rates for the next 6.5 years and the few managers left will be able to sit back and keep things running day to day while drawing a huge paycheck.

Delta brought some people over with this buyout who are definitely invested in making this new regional work. However, the ceo is an idea man with no follow through, we have a bulbous operations guy who watches the operation tank day after day and cheer when we get a couple on time departures strung together in a row, a purchasing director who just parks our aircraft in the desert or gives them to Skywest/ASA, and a number of other functionaries who do anything but their job.

It's been six or eight months and we aren't any better off (from a pilot's perspective) than we were when Meenk declared BK. We are paid a hell of a lot less, and we're missing 1/3 of the seniority list to Republic, Silver, and Compass... but that's about the only difference. Oh, some of our -900's are flying at ASA for a good wage, but when we flew them for a good wage that was bad. Hard to make sense of any of this.

As long as Endeavor can keep flying airplanes for GoJet/Mesa wages (or slightly above technically) we'll be around- supposedly.



No Delta hasn't said that, in fact they are trying to make the pilots believe that we'll be the tip of the spear for Delta's regional lift in the future. No one believes it (except for maybe 10% of the seniority list) at this company, and no one in the industry believes it because Delta has 100% of the time sold off, or knifed in the back, every regional they owned. Are future events knowable by past actions? Yes and no.

Pilots believe the world is simple. When I pull back at speed the plane will lift off unless something is SERIOUSLY wrong. When a Chapter 13 filing happens then it was all part of the plan. Management doesn't plan ahead very much, except for a few on top. Even then when they plan ahead they hire a consultant group to double check their math. Managers and high level execs are only interested in this quarter and the next quarter and they think THAT IS the 36,000ft perspective. Pilots, actually having been to 36,000ft think years in advance. Delta may continue running Endeavor for the next 15 years, and they may shut us down in 1.5 years. Delta, as a whole, doesn't really know, and Delta as a whole doesn't speak or think in one voice. Trust me, the clowns we have here believe they are here to stay to create a regional airline that is the best regional possible. They may be right, we'll see if they can fill a new hire class.

Reality is, the story here sucks. Compass will get you upgraded in 2 years. Sounds like Mesa will be the next sure thing. Everyone knows they have about 3-5 years and they HAVE to be out of the regionals before something else causes the industry to stagnate. Delta management doesn't know what 3-5 years ahead looks like unless a consultant group tells them. Management just wants us to keep putting one foot in front of the other and keep those passengers happy so they can buy a Bentley for every day of the week with money that used to go to your pension.

Advice to all? Concentrate on your career, not your profession. This airline pilot gig isn't a profession anymore, just get onto a good paying job as quickly as you can, and pray you don't get a furlough or another bankruptcy.

Good thoughts, and a broad viewpoint. You're right, no one knows not even Delta.

 

[Clutch]

Pinnacle pilots are a selective group of moist-nosed hosewenches. Hatecha