End of a proud line of Airplanes

[Diesel-9sRule]

Boeing announces the end of production of the B-717. See Boeing Commercial Web Site for more details.

Today is a sad day for a fine line of aircraft...and for the city of Long Beach.

 

[Guitar Guy]

It's a sad day but it's not surprising. My best wishes to the workers in Long Beach. By the way, a recent issue of "Air & Space Smithsonian" had an interesting article about the possible end of the 717 line and its effect on the workers there.

R.I.P., DC-9/S-80/717

 

[AA717driver]

Over half my total pilot time is in the DC-9/717/MD80. I'd still like to get a -30 and make a couple of circuits around the pattern. Lots of fun.TC

 

[Dave Siegel]

It's a sad day but it's not surprising. My best wishes to the workers in Long Beach. By the way, a recent issue of "Air & Space Smithsonian" had an interesting article about the possible end of the 717 line and its effect on the workers there.

R.I.P., DC-9/S-80/717

I'm glad they're gone. I always hated that plane. Boeing 737s rule! All other planes are crap!

 

[typhoonpilot]

Bite me Dave . First you furlough me, then you trash talk the DC-9. Something about straws and Camels here .

It is sad to see the end of the line. The 717 would have done a lot better had Boeing been at all interested in marketing the aircraft. The Long Beach pilots took the plane to the Paris Airshow in 1999, this just a short time after Boeing bought McDonnell Douglas. Surprisingly, that trip actually sold the aircraft to Boeing executives who previously had no clue that they could market a 100+ seat aircraft. They were heard to say, " maybe we could sell a few of these ". At least that trip kept the line open until now. Had Boeing started a few years earlier then I'm sure more deals could have been made. Of course it didn't help a lot when AA got rid of the type during the TWA merger.

The drawdown at the Long Beach facility has been going on for years. With production stopping on the MD-11, MD-80, and MD-90 all in quick succession it was just a matter of time for this to happen. Most of the people working there have prepared themselves for it as they knew it was just a matter of time. Some have, and others will, make the shift over to the C-17 facility and maybe some will get positions in Seattle. Most of the pilots have either retired or moved on long ago. For those that remain and aren't eligible for retirement yet, I hope Seattle sees fit to give them a position. They are all outstanding gentlemen and excellent pilots.

Sadly, I didn't get to fly the 717, I left Long Beach and went back to USAir during the flight test phase. I have been fortunate enough to fly the DC-9-10, DC-9-30, MD-81/82/83/87/88, MD-90, and MD-90EFD. They are all great airplanes to fly, each with their own high points. I'll carry many fond memories of flying the type with me for the rest of my career. The DC-9-30 is the first jet I flew and I credit it with making me the pilot I am today. I pity the pilots who start flying EFIS/Glass equipped jets with good autopilots who don't get the chance to hone their hand flying and navigation skills on a basic jet.

When the last 717 rolls off the production line it will mark the end of a great chapter in aviation history. Fortunately the type will keep flying for many years to come and some of you lucky guys will get to fly it.


Typhoonpilot

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

I resemble that remark!

Over half my total pilot time is in the DC-9/717/MD80. I'd still like to get a -30 and make a couple of circuits around the pattern. Lots of fun.TC

I just broke over 6K in type from the DC9-10 to the -83.

"Little yellow buttom you're all mine, you're just another DC9."

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Big words from Mr. "Flip-jet"

I'm glad they're gone. I always hated that plane. Boeing 737s rule! All other planes are crap!

You totally such, Dave and your mother is ugly!

PS: Don't forget your 3 big items as the rudder takes you over:

1. Autopilot off

2. autothrottles off

3. Yaw damper off

Those aren't memory items on the DC9 type.

 

[b747dogg]

I miss the days of getting wet every time it rained while sitting in the 9.
What a piece of crap!!!!
I thought I would share some fond memories too.

 

[michael707767]

I have been fortunate enough to fly the DC-9-10, DC-9-30, MD-81/82/83/87/88, MD-90, and MD-90EFD.

You missed out on the -20. Great airplane.

 

[AA717driver]

I miss the days of getting wet every time it rained while sitting in the 9.
What a piece of crap!!!!
I thought I would share some fond memories too.

Oh, come on, a little de-ice fluid in your coke never hurt anyone! Maybe that's why there's so much room between the seat and the sidewall--most of the water will drain onto your flight bag instead on you.

I remember the storage bin on the sidewall was called the "aquarium" by the OZ guys. It was always full of water!

None of this sterile A320 crap with us ex-9 pilots!TC

P.S.--I always knew that if I got killed in a DC9 it would be because of something I did, not the airplane killing me.

 

[dbrownie]

Oh, come on, a little de-ice fluid in your coke never hurt anyone! Maybe that's why there's so much room between the seat and the sidewall--most of the water will drain onto your flight bag instead on you.


I remember the glycol dripping in to my coffe cup!!! This was after
a few years of flying it....

I remember the storage bin on the sidewall was called the "aquarium" by the OZ guys. It was always full of water!

We called that the "live well"

Other than hot in the summer and getting dripped on. It was a good jet to fly.
We will be flying them well into the next decade.
Dave B
NWA

 

[HS125]

5147 Hrs

500 Aproaches

1643 Landings

AA717, can I join you on that trip around the patch?

If you couldn't hand fly an airplane before you got in the 9, you sure could by the end of the month.

 

[TexaSWA]

You totally such, Dave and your mother is ugly!

PS: Don't forget your 3 big items as the rudder takes you over:

1. Autopilot off

2. autothrottles off

3. Yaw damper off

Those aren't memory items on the DC9 type.

And how about the memory items for a runaway elevator trim with a jammed jackscrew?

 

[jbDC9]

I'd still like to get a -30 and make a couple of circuits around the pattern. Lots of fun.TC

Yup, lotsa fun! When I checked out right seat of a -30 at a charter outfit we had to do our bounces in the airplane since the sim landings didn't count... so off we went around the patch wearing jeans and T shirts (I think the instructor was wearing shorts and flip-flop sandals), doing touch n goes and burning up company gas money. What a blast that was...

I have a whopping grand total of 150 hrs in DC-9s, 30 series... my first jet. It's a great ship, glad I got to fly it (if only a little) before they all end up scrapped for beer cans.

 

[typhoonpilot]

And how about the memory items for a runaway elevator trim with a jammed jackscrew?

A source close to the investigation said the National Transportation Safety Board's draft report on the crash will conclude that a lack of lubrication of the jackscrew caused excessive wear and caused the gimbal nut -- which moves the two-foot jackscrew up and down to adjust to stabilizer -- to fail.
The report is expected to focus on potential contributing factors, including a lack of Federal Aviation Administration oversight of Alaska Airlines maintenance operations.

Your point being what ? Faulty maintenance versus design flaw are two very different things.


TP

 

[jetdriven]

it is said that when the last airbus is parked in the desert, its Captain will ride home on a DC-9.

 

[414Flyer]

A Norwegian I did some flying with, told me that SAS and McD had a very good relationship, and that SAS only bought McD aircraft. In the mid 90s, SAS decided to start trying other aircraft (Boeing), and at that point, McD decided to give up and sell to Boeing.

But it hasnt worked out well at all for SAS either, and now they are even trying out airbus, and have had a fair amount of problems with integration and crew training costs since deciding to have different aircraft types. The pilots were apparently pretty happy with the DC-9 and were wanting the 717, not the Boeings.

I do not know enough about it to know how true it is, just what a norsk pilot told me.

 

[zoohead]

Dave you're kidding yourself shags!!!!!

I was lucky enough to fly the 717 up till recently in Australia, and regulaly we were asked to keep the speed on below 10k, usually overtaking slow 737's!

The day you can fly your 737 to 12miles from touchdown at 320kts and still make it in comfortably (and I do mean very comfortably), you let me know...HAHAHA!!!! (Actually got to 9miles one day)

Gear out at 300kts...mmm, like to see that in a 737

The 9 / 80 / 90 / 717 line was THE sweetest looking thing the sky...now they all look the same, boring!

 

[TexaSWA]

Dave you're kidding yourself shags!!!!!


The day you can fly your 737 to 12miles from touchdown at 320kts and still make it in comfortably (and I do mean very comfortably), you let me know...HAHAHA!!!! (Actually got to 9miles one day)

Gear out at 300kts...mmm, like to see that in a 737

QUOTE]

True, wont work in a 737 but a 727 will do 320 to the marker.

Those 9s were so good they quit making them.

 

[Citrus1]

Two fun things about the 9/717

Having an ATL controller ask us "what speed can you hold to DEPOT, I can get you infront of DL , can you help us out"?

And

Catching up to and Passing 737's on AR1, then sitting a couple milesbelow and in front. Until you hear those words " CAL XXX turn right HDGXXX, vectors for descent"

Simple pleasures....

 

[fletch717]

It has nothing to do with how good the plane was. Boeing killed the 717 program because it was the redheaded stepchild. Boeing never promoted the 717 like the 737 Because it was'nt boeing. From what I can tell the 73 has a couple of features I like. But the 17 is more automated and provides the pilot with better infomation with all the system displays. This is just my take on things.

Fletch

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Never met an airplane I didn't like...

A source close to the investigation said the National Transportation Safety Board's draft report on the crash will conclude that a lack of lubrication of the jackscrew caused excessive wear and caused the gimbal nut -- which moves the two-foot jackscrew up and down to adjust to stabilizer -- to fail.
The report is expected to focus on potential contributing factors, including a lack of Federal Aviation Administration oversight of Alaska Airlines maintenance operations.

Your point being what ? Faulty maintenance versus design flaw are two very different things.


TP

Tyhponpilot is exactly right. Design flaw and incorrect MX are two different things. I like all planes, I was just reacting to what Dave had said in an earlier post. The B737 is a good ship. The B717 would still be in production if Boeing had marketed the plane, but they would rather sell Boeings instead of MD products with a Boeing name.

 

[Crossky]

My short but sweet experience was flying the MD-80 60 hrs till Vanguard went
T.U. in summer 2002, holding on the static wicks and watching the autothrottles move. Learned pretty quick I had to stay FAR ahead of the plane (esp the steam gauge MD-81) and finnese and lead the flight guidance and lead the autothrottles to be smooth on the pax. Was taught that was the first DC/MD plane with authtrottles. Which was Boeing's first?

CA's upgrading from the 737 FO spot disliked the -80 after learning systems "original fly by wire - 1/8 inch cable" and even more after the sim "Boeing builds airplanes, Douglas builds character". I've never liked the appearance of the 73 next to the -80 until the 737-700 myself.

 

[N8Dogg]

It is too bad that Boeing doesn't see the true potential of the 717. IMHO it seems like a good candidate to replace the RJ. It is sad when personal reasons (they did not design it) dictate wether or not to market a product. It sure would be nice to see Beoing back on top again!

 

[RVR300]

Never flew the DC-9 series, but the guys I know that did seemed to like them.
I like how you can drop the slats w/out the flaps. The MD11 had that feature which was nice.

Hadn't heard about the fishbowl, but the cockpits sure were quiet with the engines so far back.

 

[FL717]

Having flown the DC-9, the B-717, and the B-737NG I found this discussion very interesting and quite factual.

I agree that you absolutely cannot fly the B-737 320kts to the marker and make the runway.... impossible. I will take you up on the challenge to do 320 til 12 miles out. That CAN be done comfortably believe it or not.... (in the sim of course).

As far as comparisons, the DC-9-30 was alot of fun because with ZERO automation the workload challenged you, and it could be alot of FUN, but being fly-by-cable... it was a pig.!

The B-717 is the most automated plane flying that I know of, and it will however make you brain dead. The automation is really quite good. The best avionics I've seen actually in ANY airplane. It had the same pig-like fly-by-cable flight controls as the -9, but with those big Rolls Royce Engines... it really had power down low. The downside..... you will NEVER consistently land a greaser on the B-717. It also has a ceiling of FL370, and on some of those winter days when the FL300's are as smoth as a railroad track, you wish you could go to FL410 for a smooth ride.

The B-737NG is the most fun sports car I've ever flown. I never realized how much of a different product that Boeing makes. It is a real airplane. The hydraulic flight controls and the wing design make this thing scream. The wing allows for quick acceleration, great climb performance, and the ability to climb to smooth air at FL410. I'll race a B-717 anywhere anytime, and in NO catagory that I know can a B-717 compare to the B-737NG. The other day I took off at 130,000+ lbs and climbed straight to FL410 at .78 and was climbing 2000 fpm through FL400. While it is hard to get down and slow down, we can use speedbrakes in ANY configuration down to 1000 feet. This really helps. The cockpit layout is bad compared to the Douglas. The Douglas layouts were so superior... and I still haven't adjusted to the Boeing.

All right ......... all right .......... enough of my stupid "my plane is better than your plane bullSh!t"....... wheres the porn?

 

[jetdriven]

A 1900 will do 248 to a mile final. One thing is we hunt fair below 10K.

True, wont work in a 737 but a 727 will do 320 to the marker.

Those 9s were so good they quit making them.