While my husband is debating whether to accept a position with EJA, he learned that EJA had tremendously inflated the cost of their training contracts. He was given information that this was done to prevent pilots from taking the job and then quitting before their first 2 years were completed. Has anyone else heard that his is happening? It appears that there are several pilots in an upcoming class whose contract is worth $8,000 less than mine for the same aircraft. We understand management’s reasoning behind such a move, but if this action was necessary to retain pilots, what all is going on that would cause pilots to leave prior to fulfilling the contract obligation?
Employment Contract at EJA
- Thread starter Pilotwife
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helo to herc
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That sounds good to me!!
EMB145
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Sure, they are not leaving now, but wait until recalls begin. All those pilots with fake or no resignation of seniority will be jumping back to their old seniority.
I can't blame EJA. I am sure we all heard of the Comair fiasco.
On the other hand, I do agree with Gunfighter.
I can't blame EJA. I am sure we all heard of the Comair fiasco.
On the other hand, I do agree with Gunfighter.
I can see where EJA would be reluctant to increse starting pay. If pay is increased to industry average for coporate flying, then a pilot would have funds to pay off a contract and move on to another job he feels is better overall for him/her. Management is still left with turnover and no way to control it. Although if management had the disposition of the JetBlue folks (reference to the thank you letter discussesd in another thread) they might would see reduced turnover. Equating reduced turnover with improved attitude from support staff is hard to see and even harder to develop so other symptoms of the problem are attacked--Still debating whether to accept the offer or not.
Why would anyone leave?
I had no hesitation whatsoever in signing the 2 year commitment regardless of what the face value of it is in $$. Management has a right to recover their investment somehow, preferably in service. The $$ are probably more than the actual cost to FSI because there a lot of additional costs in training that are not readily apparent. Yes, you can go buy a type for less than what EJA is "charging" you but that's not the only thing that's going on here.
Also with the big bucks that management is investing in your training they would not be likely to fire people on managerial whims. At the interview they told me you've got to try really hard to get fired, it's very rare. They need to recover their investment and preferably not by paying off of training contracts.
Furthermore, I plan on being at EJA for the next 20+ years, 2 years is nothing, insignificant. What do you want to do in your (working) life? This is it, I'm in it for the long haul.
tj
I had no hesitation whatsoever in signing the 2 year commitment regardless of what the face value of it is in $$. Management has a right to recover their investment somehow, preferably in service. The $$ are probably more than the actual cost to FSI because there a lot of additional costs in training that are not readily apparent. Yes, you can go buy a type for less than what EJA is "charging" you but that's not the only thing that's going on here.
Also with the big bucks that management is investing in your training they would not be likely to fire people on managerial whims. At the interview they told me you've got to try really hard to get fired, it's very rare. They need to recover their investment and preferably not by paying off of training contracts.
Furthermore, I plan on being at EJA for the next 20+ years, 2 years is nothing, insignificant. What do you want to do in your (working) life? This is it, I'm in it for the long haul.
tj
Diesel
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If you think that's the reason why we are fighting for a industry leading contract your high. Once we get the money we deserve i'm not bailing on the company to go fly corporate, it just means that EJA is becoming the best job for me.
It sounds like your husband has an app in with jetblue and that this is a stoping point for him. Thus he doesn't want to sign a 2 year contract and skate for free.
My advice to your husband is don't bother. It doesn't seem like he wants the job and there are many other deserving pilots who want it.
My worry is someone like that is not going to fight hard for the new contract because he has another job that he waiting on.
See ya.
Beg your pardon, we would fight hard for a better contract and did about 10 years ago. 98% of the staff wanted to strike for better pay and other benefits but the union caved because they were told if they did not settle with the "commuter" they (the major airline union members) would not get what they wanted in their upcoming contract. You say what about brotherhood and sticking together. When my husband applied to EJA I thought he would make more than me. I am a state worker who makes sure your **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** does not contaminate the ground water. I guess that pays more than flying a million dollar aircraft. That reason was more important to me than the contract and I was glad he choose to let someone else who viewed the job differently have it. Someone he knows called him with news that his class date was moved up because someone bailed. We were happy for him. It was not right for us.
Diesel
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Man, i don't even know where to begin. Maybe it's becasue I have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
I still can't figure out what your saying, all i could think of what's Brown and sleeps six, a Maine State truck.
So i take it your job didn't take the job or did he or didn't he or maybe he did 10 years ago. I give up.
I give up....
I still can't figure out what your saying, all i could think of what's Brown and sleeps six, a Maine State truck.
So i take it your job didn't take the job or did he or didn't he or maybe he did 10 years ago. I give up.
I give up....
cgmason1
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I have to say that I am soooo glad that my wife does not mettle in my professional life-we are a family but she pretty much leaves the aviation career decisions to me.
(supposing this poster is a woman and a wife)Can you imagine the nagging that could go on in that house-whoa-no thanks.
Fly Safe
Chuck
(supposing this poster is a woman and a wife)Can you imagine the nagging that could go on in that house-whoa-no thanks.
Fly Safe
Chuck
No Kidding!
No kidding Chuck, I can't imagine having this career and living with that everyday! I honestly hope that is someone impersonating a pilot's wife and trying to stir things up, if not I guess we can only be glad she is in no way connected to us and EJA. I guess I will go back to flying my "million dollar aircraft" (try 7-8 million) and loving it!! As has been said over and over, money isn't everything in this line of work.
No kidding Chuck, I can't imagine having this career and living with that everyday! I honestly hope that is someone impersonating a pilot's wife and trying to stir things up, if not I guess we can only be glad she is in no way connected to us and EJA. I guess I will go back to flying my "million dollar aircraft" (try 7-8 million) and loving it!! As has been said over and over, money isn't everything in this line of work.
this is why.....
I need to show my mom, friends that are female and other married friends this post. This is why I WILL NOT GET MARRIED or date girls that can read/use a computer, accept to surf for porn.
Hee hee, just kidding
Happy Flying
I need to show my mom, friends that are female and other married friends this post. This is why I WILL NOT GET MARRIED or date girls that can read/use a computer, accept to surf for porn.
Hee hee, just kidding
Happy Flying
Oh Yeah..
Forgot I was going to include this in my first post, got distracted by that wife business.
I know what the price on my training contract was and I also know what FSI charges for the type rating and all the other training EJA has them do, and it is as much as double what EJA put on my contract. Where are the inflated prices? Looks like a discount to me. Just hate to see "un-truths" being spread about EJA.
Forgot I was going to include this in my first post, got distracted by that wife business.
I know what the price on my training contract was and I also know what FSI charges for the type rating and all the other training EJA has them do, and it is as much as double what EJA put on my contract. Where are the inflated prices? Looks like a discount to me. Just hate to see "un-truths" being spread about EJA.
Diesel
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JP11- She is going to Yonited and i'm getting a boat.
If you stopped slipping and sliding you wouldn't have gotten her sick.
Oh and remember 89z buzzing your house that was fun.
I notice no responses from the pilotwife she must have gave up and found another state job.
I have not found another state job just common sense –
I realize I should have had enough sense to let Diesel’s last remark go unanswered. His statement about someone being with EJA not fighting for a contract made me a bit angry and I don’t do well responding in anger. I should have thought about it overnight and then replied.
What I was trying to convey without writing a book was that if my husband elects to go to work for EJA, he would have met their employment conditions. As far as trying to get better benefits, he would have been a part of the movement seeking improvements. A group in most cases is more powerful than a few individuals trying to make change. In my 98% example, our side lost because a bigger and more powerful group wanted something and they did what was in their best interest at the expense of the smaller group. We got over it and moved on. It was a very, very disappointing situation.
Regarding the contract as a tool to keep from getting a free ride – my view was that if he began working for EJA, and then a corporate job offer comes through this fall--I was willing to say pay the contact off and accept the corporate job because it would be closer to home. The benefit of paying the contract off would be gained in other ways. If the corporate job never materialized, then he would be working at an organization that had a future and good equipment. My husband is not a man to make promises only to walk away when the going gets tough. I have seen him pay from his own pocket to ensure a situation is as he promised.
My comment about being a state worker was to show the inequity in the pay for pilot positions. My comment was suppose to point out that I would be making more than someone who is responsible for the operation of very expensive equipment and the people who trust the safety of that equipment and the training of the crew. I work as an environmental health specialist who reviews applications for request to install onsite sewage drainfields and drinking water wells. I do field work taking soil samples to determine depth and size of a drainfield, or that the soil is not suitable to support treating wastewater from a home. Environmentalist would probably say I am underpaid for the responsibility of have, but then that is a matter of perspective I guess.
I deserved what Diesel wrote in reply to my comment. I attempted to contact the moderator and request the thread be deleted because my question had been answered and I could see where following comments would lead. I felt it was not necessary to waste anymore space on the subject. What I did not deserve was some of the comments following Diesel’s. I wanted opinions and information about EJA’s contract, not about my intellect and capabilities as a pilot wife. If this comes across as rambling nonsense, I humbly apologize. Any future posts will be better thought through and organized. I truly felt embarrassed even in this anonymity.
I realize I should have had enough sense to let Diesel’s last remark go unanswered. His statement about someone being with EJA not fighting for a contract made me a bit angry and I don’t do well responding in anger. I should have thought about it overnight and then replied.
What I was trying to convey without writing a book was that if my husband elects to go to work for EJA, he would have met their employment conditions. As far as trying to get better benefits, he would have been a part of the movement seeking improvements. A group in most cases is more powerful than a few individuals trying to make change. In my 98% example, our side lost because a bigger and more powerful group wanted something and they did what was in their best interest at the expense of the smaller group. We got over it and moved on. It was a very, very disappointing situation.
Regarding the contract as a tool to keep from getting a free ride – my view was that if he began working for EJA, and then a corporate job offer comes through this fall--I was willing to say pay the contact off and accept the corporate job because it would be closer to home. The benefit of paying the contract off would be gained in other ways. If the corporate job never materialized, then he would be working at an organization that had a future and good equipment. My husband is not a man to make promises only to walk away when the going gets tough. I have seen him pay from his own pocket to ensure a situation is as he promised.
My comment about being a state worker was to show the inequity in the pay for pilot positions. My comment was suppose to point out that I would be making more than someone who is responsible for the operation of very expensive equipment and the people who trust the safety of that equipment and the training of the crew. I work as an environmental health specialist who reviews applications for request to install onsite sewage drainfields and drinking water wells. I do field work taking soil samples to determine depth and size of a drainfield, or that the soil is not suitable to support treating wastewater from a home. Environmentalist would probably say I am underpaid for the responsibility of have, but then that is a matter of perspective I guess.
I deserved what Diesel wrote in reply to my comment. I attempted to contact the moderator and request the thread be deleted because my question had been answered and I could see where following comments would lead. I felt it was not necessary to waste anymore space on the subject. What I did not deserve was some of the comments following Diesel’s. I wanted opinions and information about EJA’s contract, not about my intellect and capabilities as a pilot wife. If this comes across as rambling nonsense, I humbly apologize. Any future posts will be better thought through and organized. I truly felt embarrassed even in this anonymity.
sparticusflt
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Either sign the contract or get lost. The guy is hesitant to sign the contract? I wonder how many guys on this board are still waiting to hear from EJA about their interview dates? I'm more then sure that each and everyone of them would sign a training contract in a heart beat. Tell your husband hes lucky to have the job offer and lucky that no one figured out that he was a tool. Better yet tell him to wait for JetBlue to call.
Who is doing the interviewing over here? How come they aren't noticing some of these guys are complete idiots. I bumped into a new hire last week in Chicago and all he was doing was Bitching about the company and the job. He has been here for 4 months.
Since when does a state worker have the right to throw around attitude towards pilots? Go out and keep testing the ground, Hero.
Who is doing the interviewing over here? How come they aren't noticing some of these guys are complete idiots. I bumped into a new hire last week in Chicago and all he was doing was Bitching about the company and the job. He has been here for 4 months.
Since when does a state worker have the right to throw around attitude towards pilots? Go out and keep testing the ground, Hero.
Maybe that new hire is complaining because he is having second thoughts about going to work for EJA . . . I situation my spouse is trying to avoid by asking the question he did. He simply wanted a better picture of what is going on with the company. One reason why this board was created – to share information so others can make better decisions or find out information they would otherwise not be aware of.
My question was answered; our decision was made about the job; called the company (and they were really nice about it); someone else got the call to fill the slot he vacated in the class (know for sure because someone he knows called to tell him). We don't hold our breath about any opportunity we explore. Too many variables why one pilot is selected for an interview over others. I have never put any pilot down. I know there are many pilots out of work or looking for a change who would appreciate getting an interview at EJA. Each pilot has to decide if the type of flying EJA does and the way they operate is for them. I wish them luck in making the right decision for themselves as well as their family when given any job offer.
I know my husband was lucky to have the job offer from EJA, but what do you mean that he was a tool? I don’t get it and maybe it is not worth an explanation to me. Also, explain the comment about JetBlue. Have they already met their hiring quota for the year or do you believe, by my representation, that he is not “worthy” of being interviewed by them?
Again I find myself apologizing – to any pilot I may have offended. I am not hear as a “state worker” but as a pilots spouse who is trying to find out what I can to help him make decisions and become re-employed as a pilot. I am sorry you are bummed about your employer hiring idiots. I lot of people come across very well in interviews - sites are even provided to tell you how to act the act to get hired. Put this thread to rest it no longer is about the topic.
P.S. I find it offensive that you used the word Hero in sarcasm to describe me. I’ll keep the remainder of my thoughts to myself.
My question was answered; our decision was made about the job; called the company (and they were really nice about it); someone else got the call to fill the slot he vacated in the class (know for sure because someone he knows called to tell him). We don't hold our breath about any opportunity we explore. Too many variables why one pilot is selected for an interview over others. I have never put any pilot down. I know there are many pilots out of work or looking for a change who would appreciate getting an interview at EJA. Each pilot has to decide if the type of flying EJA does and the way they operate is for them. I wish them luck in making the right decision for themselves as well as their family when given any job offer.
I know my husband was lucky to have the job offer from EJA, but what do you mean that he was a tool? I don’t get it and maybe it is not worth an explanation to me. Also, explain the comment about JetBlue. Have they already met their hiring quota for the year or do you believe, by my representation, that he is not “worthy” of being interviewed by them?
Again I find myself apologizing – to any pilot I may have offended. I am not hear as a “state worker” but as a pilots spouse who is trying to find out what I can to help him make decisions and become re-employed as a pilot. I am sorry you are bummed about your employer hiring idiots. I lot of people come across very well in interviews - sites are even provided to tell you how to act the act to get hired. Put this thread to rest it no longer is about the topic.
P.S. I find it offensive that you used the word Hero in sarcasm to describe me. I’ll keep the remainder of my thoughts to myself.
SheGaveMeClap
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Wife,
Why doesn't your husband come on here and ask for advice? I can appreciate the fact you are concerned for your family's well being, but if there are questions to be asked about your husband (and his potential job dilemma), why doesn't he come on here and ask for himself? No offense to you, but you opened up a whole new bag getting into the subject of your work, and it might have been avoided by him coming on here and sticking to the point.
Regards.....
Why doesn't your husband come on here and ask for advice? I can appreciate the fact you are concerned for your family's well being, but if there are questions to be asked about your husband (and his potential job dilemma), why doesn't he come on here and ask for himself? No offense to you, but you opened up a whole new bag getting into the subject of your work, and it might have been avoided by him coming on here and sticking to the point.
Regards.....
Mr. Irrelevant
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Pilot Wife,
Quit apologizing. It shouldn't be a big deal that you said something that was misconstrued or that someone chose to be offended by. Everyone should know you're intention was not to insult or offend. I think it is amazing that pilots are required to sign contracts to cover training costs when so many other professionals (say around a few hundred thousand plus individuals a year) are trained by their respective companies for amounts of money that probably equal or exceed what is being paid by pilots to EJA or ACA or any other flight operation. In many cases the new hires are only with their companies for short periods of time if they can't cut the mustard to that company's standards. Or if they just don't like working there. Part of the risk of doing business.
Some might say that the management of various flight operations that require these contracts is so much smarter than the rest of corporate America and have come up with a brilliant plan for mitigating turnover risk. Absurd. There are fewer options for pilots to obtain employment in their chosen field than there are for accountants, lawyers, financial professionals, sales professionals or even environmental scientists. My company runs a training program for accountants that about five years ago I was told cost $6,800 per person. On the job training certainly adds to that value. The very structure of seniority determining everything for pilots and the overall lack of options should be incentive enough to prevent turnover. As gunfyter had mentioned "a better idea would be to increase salary and benefits to the point no one would want to leave". That seems to me to be true competition in a capitalist market.
I have not read any information discussing pilot/management relations thru history so I don't know how long this type of contract has been in place. I've also heard some people on this board discuss the legality of the contracts as well. I'm not a lawyer however they may or may not even be enforceable. It really seems to me to be a tool of intimidation more so than anything else to prevent having to pay pilot's training costs if there isn't the right fit for that individual and flight operation. I would probably be willing to sign the contract as well for an organization I thought was worth it but to hear people defend the use of them is somewhat stunning.
I have no problem with EJA or ACA. From what I've read and the pilots I've spoken to that work for EJA, they both seem like great operations and I'm not picking on them. Just using examples. Don't be offended. This wasn't meant as a flame of anyone. Just an opinion on the issue of training contracts. Good luck on the career job search to you and your husband Pilotwife.
Mr. I
Quit apologizing. It shouldn't be a big deal that you said something that was misconstrued or that someone chose to be offended by. Everyone should know you're intention was not to insult or offend. I think it is amazing that pilots are required to sign contracts to cover training costs when so many other professionals (say around a few hundred thousand plus individuals a year) are trained by their respective companies for amounts of money that probably equal or exceed what is being paid by pilots to EJA or ACA or any other flight operation. In many cases the new hires are only with their companies for short periods of time if they can't cut the mustard to that company's standards. Or if they just don't like working there. Part of the risk of doing business.
Some might say that the management of various flight operations that require these contracts is so much smarter than the rest of corporate America and have come up with a brilliant plan for mitigating turnover risk. Absurd. There are fewer options for pilots to obtain employment in their chosen field than there are for accountants, lawyers, financial professionals, sales professionals or even environmental scientists. My company runs a training program for accountants that about five years ago I was told cost $6,800 per person. On the job training certainly adds to that value. The very structure of seniority determining everything for pilots and the overall lack of options should be incentive enough to prevent turnover. As gunfyter had mentioned "a better idea would be to increase salary and benefits to the point no one would want to leave". That seems to me to be true competition in a capitalist market.
I have not read any information discussing pilot/management relations thru history so I don't know how long this type of contract has been in place. I've also heard some people on this board discuss the legality of the contracts as well. I'm not a lawyer however they may or may not even be enforceable. It really seems to me to be a tool of intimidation more so than anything else to prevent having to pay pilot's training costs if there isn't the right fit for that individual and flight operation. I would probably be willing to sign the contract as well for an organization I thought was worth it but to hear people defend the use of them is somewhat stunning.
I have no problem with EJA or ACA. From what I've read and the pilots I've spoken to that work for EJA, they both seem like great operations and I'm not picking on them. Just using examples. Don't be offended. This wasn't meant as a flame of anyone. Just an opinion on the issue of training contracts. Good luck on the career job search to you and your husband Pilotwife.
Mr. I
