Emirates aims for 120 A380s... See Reuters Article

[johnsonrod]

I'm no expert on this, but Canadas' denial of unfettered access to Canadian cities by EK is a blow to their N American plans. The Canadian government justifies the denial on the grounds that the Emirate is not a destination but a transit point, and EK and others are simply flooding the market with cheap seats, intending to put AC and others out of business.

Although AC is one of my least favourite carriers, Harper (Canadian Prime Minister) has a point.

When the playing field is level (human rights, salaries, fuel and insurance costs), let the games begin.

FWIW, the Emirate has responded but terminating the lease the Canadian Armed Forces (yes, there is one) has on a base in the UAE, giving them 30 days to vacate. So much for fair play. Right.

We all understand the capacity dump argument. Why not allow a 1-2 daily 777s vs. one A380 three days a week? But Air Canada also can't compete with EK's service standards. So, Canadian citizens will have to suffer with higher airfares and crappier service when they want to get to the Middle East. Gee, sounds quite protectionist to me.

Fortunately AF, BA and LH also serve Canada (I think AF now operates an A380 to Montreal daily from CDG - what's up with that???? Can't people also transit through CDG on their way to Pakistan and India?) so Canadians aren't completely held hostage by AC and its comparative crap service.

 

[Cpt. Underpants]

AF, BA and LH also serve Canada

True - but LHR, LGW, CDG & FRA all destinations in themselves, not transit stops - the essence of the argument in the AC/EK dispute.

Couldn't agree more.

I'll reiterate - I'm no fan of AC, but I do believe in fair play.

 

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Great post!!

The arrogance and American cetric attitudes of some N. American pilots is crazy. I fly full 777-300ER's from Hong Kong to Taiwan, Manila, and Japan all the time with high yeilds that don't have one American on them. There is a HUGE market of flyers out there in growing economies that many US carriers will never be able to tap into.

I never disputed Cathay Pacific's ability to fill 777s in Asia. What I am disputing is how Emirates will fill 120 A-380s from Dubai. This ain't rocket science its just the facts. The N. American market still constitutes 50% of all air traffic and Dubai can't tap into that market very effectively. I'm not flying currently in N. America, I am an ExPat so I have been around the block a few times mister arrogant. I think Emirates has a great market and can fill a niche in certain markets but time will tell whether 120 A-380s can be filled. My bet in a big NOOOOOOO!

 

[johnsonrod]

True - but LHR, LGW, CDG & FRA all destinations in themselves, not transit stops - the essence of the argument in the AC/EK dispute.

Couldn't agree more.

I'll reiterate - I'm no fan of AC, but I do believe in fair play.

Good point, but I'd argue that Dubai, with its Palm Islands, huge malls, indoor ski slopes and the world's tallest building, would also be considered a destination by many people - like London, Paris and Frankfurt. In fact, I'd rather visit Dubai than Frankfurt (except during the hot summer). So, it's all semantics (word play) and it doesn't hide the fact that the Canadians can't compete with EK's product (especially the luxurious A380) and high service standard. The Canadian hosers just can't admit it.

IMO, the Canadian military base should be tossed out of the UAE - it's called reciprocity. You should expect a response to these constraints. It's time to to liberalize trade and actually help Canadian citizens get where they want to go worldwide instead of restricting that ability. The US would allow A380s to US airports if EK were interested in more flights beyond JFK - they probably wouldn't restrict access like Canada. Air Canada should compete for business (both through better service and lower fares) vs. runaway and hide behind gov't restrictions. US airlines are competing internationally with EK through their alliances and high service standards - why can't Air Canada?

 

[Cpt. Underpants]

Palm Islands, huge malls, indoor ski slopes and the world's tallest building

Mall of the Americas - in 110 degree heat? Why ski indoors (I've been there, by the way. It's a bunny slope at best) when the best skiing is in Aspen, Telluride or Whistler? Buildings, schmuildings. Seen one, seen 'em all.

What EK want is a 300% + increase in seats (for starters) and THEN multiple daily services to YVR, YYC, YEG, YWG (WTF!) YYZ, YHZ and YUL. Get the F out.

Not proven, but ICAO is pretty sure EK pays a lot less than most for fuel, landing fees, overflight, navigation and finance - it's the new OPEC.

Emirates has been pushing for up to 50 new takeoff and landing slots over the long term, but Air Canada and Transport Canada oppose the distribution of so many new flights, saying there have to be “reciprocal” benefits, and not the one-sided advantages for the UAE.

Air Canada argues that Emirates doesn’t really want to fly customers between Canada and Dubai, but instead sees the foreign carrier as aggressively seeking to skim off lucrative international traffic via the UAE.

Hoser? I haven't sucked gas out of a tank in at least a month!

 

[jws717]

When the rest of us are paying $15 a gallon for fuel in 10 years. This will be worlds only wide body fleet. Want to go to China, connect in Dubai and take home a liter of duty free petroleum product.

 

[uba757]

The arrogance and American cetric attitudes of some N. American pilots is crazy. I fly full 777-300ER's from Hong Kong to Taiwan, Manila, and Japan all the time with high yeilds that don't have one American on them. There is a HUGE market of flyers out there in growing economies that many US carriers will never be able to tap into.[/QUOTE]
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This is the reason we can't have good discussions on here some times, this is the typical response that you get when you leave abroad and work for companies like EK, or any other. For any American thinking about working outside the U.S.A, this is the kind of mentality that you get from some of the citizens of former British Colonies. Bitter and Bitchy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

uba757

 

[johnsonrod]

True - but LHR, LGW, CDG & FRA all destinations in themselves, not transit stops - the essence of the argument in the AC/EK dispute.

Couldn't agree more.

I'll reiterate - I'm no fan of AC, but I do believe in fair play.

This is the point I am disputing. Dubai can be considered a destination - many Europeans view it as a destination. The point is that the Canadians are using this in their defense (a false defense in my opinion) because they know they can't compete.

We all understand the A380 capacity dumping argument. But offering even daily flights out of Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal and maybe Calgary (let's just say 1 777 per destination) would not necessarily dump too much capacity - it would provide Canadians with easier connections to the ME and other places they can't get to on AC. Sure, AC wants to protect its flights to India, but limiting EK to just 3 flights per week out of all of Canada is ridiculous. That is trade protectionism - simple as that.

 

[WYOMINGPILOT]

IMO, the Canadian military base should be tossed out of the UAE - it's called reciprocity. You should expect a response to these constraints. It's time to to liberalize trade and actually help Canadian citizens get where they want to go worldwide instead of restricting that ability. The US would allow A380s to US airports if EK were interested in more flights beyond JFK - they probably wouldn't restrict access like Canada. Air Canada should compete for business (both through better service and lower fares) vs. runaway and hide behind gov't restrictions. US airlines are competing internationally with EK through their alliances and high service standards - why can't Air Canada?

I expect the US will take similar measures as Canada regarding dumping excess capacity. Expect the airlines and labor groups to fight this one long and hard, allowing 120 A-380s random access to prime Us and Canadian markets will not be allowed. Call it trade protectionism or whatever you want but that is what countries are supposed to do. Protect their corporations and high paying jobs vs. having them exported.

 

[WYOMINGPILOT]

This is the reason we can't have good discussions on here some times, this is the typical response that you get when you leave abroad and work for companies like EK, or any other. For any American thinking about working outside the U.S.A, this is the kind of mentality that you get from some of the citizens of former British Colonies. Bitter and Bitchy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Careful Hoser, if it weren't for some of those former British Colonies you would have been speaking fluent GERMAN now and under Supreme Adolf's rule. This thread is regarding EKs ability to fill 120 A-380s.

 

[CX880]

The arrogance and American cetric attitudes of some N. American pilots is crazy. I fly full 777-300ER's from Hong Kong to Taiwan, Manila, and Japan all the time with high yeilds that don't have one American on them. There is a HUGE market of flyers out there in growing economies that many US carriers will never be able to tap into.

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This is the reason we can't have good discussions on here some times, this is the typical response that you get when you leave abroad and work for companies like EK, or any other. For any American thinking about working outside the U.S.A, this is the kind of mentality that you get from some of the citizens of former British Colonies. Bitter and Bitchy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

uba757[/QUOTE]

I know what you mean. I've flown with a couple of these and they're all about opinions. You just want to tell them to STFU but you can't because their accent makes them sound official.

 

[CCDiscoB]

You just want to tell them to STFU but you can't because their accent makes them sound official.

LOL!! Now that's funny!

 

[johnsonrod]

I expect the US will take similar measures as Canada regarding dumping excess capacity. Expect the airlines and labor groups to fight this one long and hard, allowing 120 A-380s random access to prime Us and Canadian markets will not be allowed. Call it trade protectionism or whatever you want but that is what countries are supposed to do. Protect their corporations and high paying jobs vs. having them exported.

Thanks to Obama and his Socialist ways....

 

[CX880]

Thanks to Obama and his Socialist ways....

It's a democracy, all he needed was 51+% vote. He got it thanks to his smooth talk and the fact that nobody was sure if McCain was going to live past his first term.

 

[boxjockey]

Hi johnsonrod,

Are you a pilot for EK? I think you must be with the vigor you are using to defend them and their ludicrous expansion plans. Dubai in the same breath with Paris, London, and Frankfurt? You must be delirious from all of those tough out-and-backs to Houston. Dubai is shopping disneyland, filled with Russian prostitutes, built in the middle of the sand. Indoor ski resort? Have you been there? Tallest building in the world? These are you're arguments as to why Dubai is a destination, not a through stop? There are some business travelers who end their stays in Dubai, but I would suggest that far more people use that city as a transit point than a destination. I really can't fathom putting Dubai in the same category as Paris, London, or Frankfurt. What a pity.

box