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Embry Riddle CAPT raising rates
- Thread starter DKM
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starcheck1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2003
- Posts
- 123
capt. megadeth
Metal Momma!
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2003
- Posts
- 2,898
That's crazy. Back in the day, I was going to go to Embry Riddle and my CFI told me to get a degree in something I could fall back on. It was the best advice I ever got. I became a nurse and did my flying on the side. This year I was on my way to making only $4000 more as a SF340 commuter capt. than my 4 day a month part time nursing job. Unless someone REALLY wants to get an aviation degree to do something else other than flying, I would not suggest it. This way, when you are crapping your pants that your airline is going to go under, you don't have to worry about going to work at McDonald's.
Westwindflyer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2003
- Posts
- 70
Wow, it seems like the schools many of you had attended failed miserably.
Most of you can't type nor spell.
Maybe, having gone to ERAU you would have at least learned that much.
It is now time for you to throw out your fake diplomas and go work for a real one.
Every school around will graduate idiots and boneheads. ERAU notwithstanding will do the same but to discredit their school program based on 3rd hand knowledge is a true sign of idiocy and bone headedness.
Knowledge: an understanding gained by actual experience, clear perception of truth.
As you can see in the definition above, 3rd hand knowledge does not make it truth.
TXPilot
Most of you can't type nor spell.
Maybe, having gone to ERAU you would have at least learned that much.
It is now time for you to throw out your fake diplomas and go work for a real one.
Every school around will graduate idiots and boneheads. ERAU notwithstanding will do the same but to discredit their school program based on 3rd hand knowledge is a true sign of idiocy and bone headedness.
Knowledge: an understanding gained by actual experience, clear perception of truth.
As you can see in the definition above, 3rd hand knowledge does not make it truth.
TXPilot
nope, not brain washed; just testing the waters.
I hadn't started a flame war before and wanted to see how it would end.
vclean,
I edited my text and took "neither" out to instill more grammar flame.
It worked. LOL!
Killing time on the most boring of days. Sad to say this is the only thing I could come up with.
TXPilot
I hadn't started a flame war before and wanted to see how it would end.
vclean,
I edited my text and took "neither" out to instill more grammar flame.
It worked. LOL!
Killing time on the most boring of days. Sad to say this is the only thing I could come up with.
TXPilot
n757st
It's always sunny in JFK
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2003
- Posts
- 888
Westwindflyer said:
I am sure that the DE would know considering that riddle pilots only fly with a DE once during their entire training.
I really get sick of people saying that this group sucks while this group produces an unbelievable stick. I did all my ratings up north in a part 61 environment, then went to riddle for my CFI and to finish up my business degree. I can tell you that the pilots there are neither the pillar of aviation knowledge and capability nor are they sub par compared to other pilots that I have flown with.
I have no clue however about the CAPT group. It is my opinion that they are investing a bunch of money that will see no real results and that the actual program is a bunch of flash and no real substance. What the hell does a group of md-90 simulator sessions and a cadre of DA-40s with cameras that record the entire flight do to improve your chances of getting hired in these turbulent times? IMO nothing, but I am not an insider and would not know the real answer to that question.
As for Embry Riddle itself, it is ok. It is not nearly as tough as the school I came from (University of Connecticut) but it does have some classes that make you really work. The business school’s draw is the fact that much of the material is based on the aerospace industry, which has its ups and downs.
In any case, all this talk about ERAU pilots are crap compared to UND pilots or Perdue pilots are the most superior pilots in the country or whatever is a bunch of hogwash. If it makes you feel better when you think you are superior to a pilot who most likely paid twice as much for his or her ratings then you, then fantastic. But for you or a DE to say in a public forum that a group of pilots sucks at flying just shows your ignorance and immaturity.
--ST
merikeyegro
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2002
- Posts
- 163
set the record straight
Guys -
Well, I work here at ERAU as a CFI. There are some extreme views I've read here, other are on the money. Allow me to give you a few snippets. Keep in mind that I did no flight training here aside from Part 141 standardization (which has been thoroughly competent, I might add) and did not get a bachelor's degree from this school. I am working toward my MBA here, but that's about it. I have only paid for online study materials (maybe around $300 total) and two pleasure flights I took in 2001. All told, I have probably paid $600 to the university since I got here in 2001. So, I have not been stung by the tuition. Let me lay it out for you from a quasi-impersonal standpoint. I might have a few biases, but please take them as you will...
First, this place is d@mn expensive as far as tuition. Tuition has risen nearly 50% since I got here. In my opinion, they were underpriced when I got here, but now they've gone a little far. I think they experienced some backlash from that, so they've toned down the prices. Flight prices were also underpriced when I got here (new C172 SPs with impeccable MTC going for $60/hr), and they've now risen to market ($106/hr + instruction). They've been the same for over a year now and probably won't go up much anytime soon. So, as far as flight prices go, we're about the same as anyone else in the country for the same equipment and care (nearby FBOs charge about the same, as do a few other schools I've attended in the past in the Midwest).
Second, ERAU is VERY safety conscious and is always thinking of new ways to improve safety and safety education. They'll spare, truly, no expense. MTC is zero-tolerance and EVERYTHING works on these planes, every day. If a light is out on the transponder, they fix it. If they don't have the parts, the placard it and it gets fixed in about a day or two. VERY good relations with vendors. They have a dedicated, independent safety & security department with good management and pilot members. ERAU is installing ADS-B and has worked closely with the FAA to become the big test case down here in the Southeast. We're going to have the ground station on top of the College of Aviation. Anyway, they pay instructors to advocate safety here. They have a reporting system for internal analysis. They are on a first-name basis with the Orlando FSDO and always look out for us. In that sense, I feel very safe here, despite the asenine airspace. You won't find another school around here that will operate its flight department on a break-even basis but will spend tons of money on safety and maintenance. I'm not saying it's all for us - I'm sure some is bad publicity and liability - but I'll take it.
Third, I'd say that, as a whole, we have a very experienced and knowledgeable flight staff. Average experience here is probably around 2-2.5 years. Since we're unionized and have faculty benefits per the contract, many people are making a pretty good living here. This keeps attrition relatively low - turnover this year will be around 40-50% (in 2000 it was 120%). A lot of instructors are also working on extra degrees in business, engineering, etc. The contract and the benefits make being a CFI not so bad, so some people are in no hurry to leave. Thus, they take a little extra care in being a good instructor instead of just using students for time-building. Our pay here starts at around $14/hr + medical, dental, vision, free tuition up to 6 classes per year, 3-to-1 matching for retirement, uniform cleaning allowance, and a few other small benefits. Standard pay in the area is about $11/hr without benefits. We've had a residual effect, though, on other schools. A few others now compete with us for instructors, so their pay is good, as well. So, going to the airlines, as you can see, if a HUGE step back as far as pay and bennies go, in most cases. Does this mean that everyone here is wonderful? Not a chance. There are a few lazy or inconsiderate bastards that are money-grubbers and time-builders. However, as a whole, most people here do care about their jobs and enjoy what they do. Are most trying to leave despite this? Sure. But there really isn't a mad rush. It's kinda nice. Makes things less chaotic.
Fourth, CAPT is a well-thought-out program that had little or no market, that has had piss-poor implementation, and has had tenuous agreements with airlines. It is likely doomed. The union here despises it due to its union-busting nature (they operate out of DAB but don't use our contract - touchy subject). So, despite the higher pay, most people from here have not left to work over there. Since we are trained to ERAU standards, the mgmt would like to move a lot of us over there, but many won't take the bait. I think we've lost maybe 6 (out of about 160 total) over the year. Right now, they don't have enough people to fly their current students. The standards for employment there are 1200 TT, 3 years experience CFI, CFI-I, MEI. Most with those quals go to the airlines. I've personally had contact with the guy that runs www.captiscrap.com for info from that side of the field. Sounds like a lousy operation. They rushed into starting it with unfinished contracts and thus have had to improvise. I don't quite know who would pay to do that program. They have nice planes, though...The MD-90 is used because the airlines they conferred with (supposedly) didn't want us teaching them the way to fly the plane, only to have the students show up to be taught the way the company wants. They just wanted to get them some experience flying heavy stuff. All in all, CAPT is a decent program in utopia. Problem is that this is reality, this is ERAU, and this program is a non-starter. Don't waste your $$$.
Fifth, the DEs that fly outta here don't seem to mind the $$$ they steal from our students, so I don't see why they don't just take their skills elsewhere. ERAU now has even allowed the students to list 3 DEs that they'd like to fly with because there have been so many complaints about him and one other DE. They used to schedule the one they could get the soonest to expedite the process. Some students don't care. Many do. Regardless, I haven't had any DEs come by my desk and complain about my students' lack of abilities. Just the same, they haven't complained to the chief CFI. So, I don't know where this is coming from. If they can't fly, why isn't our pass rate lower? I don't quite understand that logic.
Last, the AeroSci degree is too easy. I tell my students to switch to a different degree and take flight as a minor. Some actually do it. My old CFI told me to major in anything else but aviation. I took his advice...and avoided places like UND and ERAU. I think people that come here thinking that this degree will get you into a 747 are dazzled by pictures and the dream of flying big iron. No one here, to my knowledge, tells these students that they're going to be airline pilots 6 months after graduation. Anyone that chooses to come here and spend this kind of money ought to do some research first. Most students here are plenty happy, although the administration of the university leaves something to be desired (I've had to deal with it, too, with my MBA classes). For a techical university, they kinda suck at the whole technology thing. For example, registration just got online this year. What? They have a 1990 vintage info system that takes care of the accounting functions. It's just a little messed up. They're also a little heavy on management. The College of Aviation has somewhere around 6 levels of management. My chain of command goes from me to my manager to the assistant chief to the chief to the chairman of the Flight Department to the chairman of the AeroSci department to the Dean of the CoA. $hit rolls downhill, and it takes a LONG TIME to get there. It's like playing a game of "telephone," too.
Anyway, take what you will from this. There are some serious misconceptions out there that emanate from the Student Village (a month ago there was a rumor that I was getting a charter job when I haven't sent out a resume in 6 months), while others are right on. The price thing - right on. DEs bitching about student abilities - not so sure. CAPT - good idea, but lousy in reality. Working here - working-class living (not poverty, as is standard for CFI), good bennies (I've got over $10,000 in retirement already after 3 years & change), and free degrees; not a bad deal. Management sucks but improves SLOWLY over time. I've heard much worse out there. I would implore anyone to head down to Delta Connection Academy to explore the conditions and management, then come up here and tell me the difference. Here I don't fear for my job. There I would. Same at many airlines.
It's all how you look at it...
Guys -
Well, I work here at ERAU as a CFI. There are some extreme views I've read here, other are on the money. Allow me to give you a few snippets. Keep in mind that I did no flight training here aside from Part 141 standardization (which has been thoroughly competent, I might add) and did not get a bachelor's degree from this school. I am working toward my MBA here, but that's about it. I have only paid for online study materials (maybe around $300 total) and two pleasure flights I took in 2001. All told, I have probably paid $600 to the university since I got here in 2001. So, I have not been stung by the tuition. Let me lay it out for you from a quasi-impersonal standpoint. I might have a few biases, but please take them as you will...
First, this place is d@mn expensive as far as tuition. Tuition has risen nearly 50% since I got here. In my opinion, they were underpriced when I got here, but now they've gone a little far. I think they experienced some backlash from that, so they've toned down the prices. Flight prices were also underpriced when I got here (new C172 SPs with impeccable MTC going for $60/hr), and they've now risen to market ($106/hr + instruction). They've been the same for over a year now and probably won't go up much anytime soon. So, as far as flight prices go, we're about the same as anyone else in the country for the same equipment and care (nearby FBOs charge about the same, as do a few other schools I've attended in the past in the Midwest).
Second, ERAU is VERY safety conscious and is always thinking of new ways to improve safety and safety education. They'll spare, truly, no expense. MTC is zero-tolerance and EVERYTHING works on these planes, every day. If a light is out on the transponder, they fix it. If they don't have the parts, the placard it and it gets fixed in about a day or two. VERY good relations with vendors. They have a dedicated, independent safety & security department with good management and pilot members. ERAU is installing ADS-B and has worked closely with the FAA to become the big test case down here in the Southeast. We're going to have the ground station on top of the College of Aviation. Anyway, they pay instructors to advocate safety here. They have a reporting system for internal analysis. They are on a first-name basis with the Orlando FSDO and always look out for us. In that sense, I feel very safe here, despite the asenine airspace. You won't find another school around here that will operate its flight department on a break-even basis but will spend tons of money on safety and maintenance. I'm not saying it's all for us - I'm sure some is bad publicity and liability - but I'll take it.
Third, I'd say that, as a whole, we have a very experienced and knowledgeable flight staff. Average experience here is probably around 2-2.5 years. Since we're unionized and have faculty benefits per the contract, many people are making a pretty good living here. This keeps attrition relatively low - turnover this year will be around 40-50% (in 2000 it was 120%). A lot of instructors are also working on extra degrees in business, engineering, etc. The contract and the benefits make being a CFI not so bad, so some people are in no hurry to leave. Thus, they take a little extra care in being a good instructor instead of just using students for time-building. Our pay here starts at around $14/hr + medical, dental, vision, free tuition up to 6 classes per year, 3-to-1 matching for retirement, uniform cleaning allowance, and a few other small benefits. Standard pay in the area is about $11/hr without benefits. We've had a residual effect, though, on other schools. A few others now compete with us for instructors, so their pay is good, as well. So, going to the airlines, as you can see, if a HUGE step back as far as pay and bennies go, in most cases. Does this mean that everyone here is wonderful? Not a chance. There are a few lazy or inconsiderate bastards that are money-grubbers and time-builders. However, as a whole, most people here do care about their jobs and enjoy what they do. Are most trying to leave despite this? Sure. But there really isn't a mad rush. It's kinda nice. Makes things less chaotic.
Fourth, CAPT is a well-thought-out program that had little or no market, that has had piss-poor implementation, and has had tenuous agreements with airlines. It is likely doomed. The union here despises it due to its union-busting nature (they operate out of DAB but don't use our contract - touchy subject). So, despite the higher pay, most people from here have not left to work over there. Since we are trained to ERAU standards, the mgmt would like to move a lot of us over there, but many won't take the bait. I think we've lost maybe 6 (out of about 160 total) over the year. Right now, they don't have enough people to fly their current students. The standards for employment there are 1200 TT, 3 years experience CFI, CFI-I, MEI. Most with those quals go to the airlines. I've personally had contact with the guy that runs www.captiscrap.com for info from that side of the field. Sounds like a lousy operation. They rushed into starting it with unfinished contracts and thus have had to improvise. I don't quite know who would pay to do that program. They have nice planes, though...The MD-90 is used because the airlines they conferred with (supposedly) didn't want us teaching them the way to fly the plane, only to have the students show up to be taught the way the company wants. They just wanted to get them some experience flying heavy stuff. All in all, CAPT is a decent program in utopia. Problem is that this is reality, this is ERAU, and this program is a non-starter. Don't waste your $$$.
Fifth, the DEs that fly outta here don't seem to mind the $$$ they steal from our students, so I don't see why they don't just take their skills elsewhere. ERAU now has even allowed the students to list 3 DEs that they'd like to fly with because there have been so many complaints about him and one other DE. They used to schedule the one they could get the soonest to expedite the process. Some students don't care. Many do. Regardless, I haven't had any DEs come by my desk and complain about my students' lack of abilities. Just the same, they haven't complained to the chief CFI. So, I don't know where this is coming from. If they can't fly, why isn't our pass rate lower? I don't quite understand that logic.
Last, the AeroSci degree is too easy. I tell my students to switch to a different degree and take flight as a minor. Some actually do it. My old CFI told me to major in anything else but aviation. I took his advice...and avoided places like UND and ERAU. I think people that come here thinking that this degree will get you into a 747 are dazzled by pictures and the dream of flying big iron. No one here, to my knowledge, tells these students that they're going to be airline pilots 6 months after graduation. Anyone that chooses to come here and spend this kind of money ought to do some research first. Most students here are plenty happy, although the administration of the university leaves something to be desired (I've had to deal with it, too, with my MBA classes). For a techical university, they kinda suck at the whole technology thing. For example, registration just got online this year. What? They have a 1990 vintage info system that takes care of the accounting functions. It's just a little messed up. They're also a little heavy on management. The College of Aviation has somewhere around 6 levels of management. My chain of command goes from me to my manager to the assistant chief to the chief to the chairman of the Flight Department to the chairman of the AeroSci department to the Dean of the CoA. $hit rolls downhill, and it takes a LONG TIME to get there. It's like playing a game of "telephone," too.
Anyway, take what you will from this. There are some serious misconceptions out there that emanate from the Student Village (a month ago there was a rumor that I was getting a charter job when I haven't sent out a resume in 6 months), while others are right on. The price thing - right on. DEs bitching about student abilities - not so sure. CAPT - good idea, but lousy in reality. Working here - working-class living (not poverty, as is standard for CFI), good bennies (I've got over $10,000 in retirement already after 3 years & change), and free degrees; not a bad deal. Management sucks but improves SLOWLY over time. I've heard much worse out there. I would implore anyone to head down to Delta Connection Academy to explore the conditions and management, then come up here and tell me the difference. Here I don't fear for my job. There I would. Same at many airlines.
It's all how you look at it...
Last edited:
Westwindflyer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2003
- Posts
- 70
n757st
It's always sunny in JFK
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2003
- Posts
- 888
gkrangers said:
If you have the patience and the skills go for the Aero-engineering degree. It is by far the best degree program on campus, if not then go buisness with a flight AOC. It is good that you are considering a degree program other then aero-sci, it offers you a lot more potential and the flight department is a lot less strict. Good luck!
merikeyegro
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2002
- Posts
- 163
Sorry I posted the name. The message is the same, but I've had students complain heavily in the past about that specific DE. I don't really see the problem with posting the truth. I guess that's against the rules, though...
As far as the long posting goes...well, sometimes disinformation and out-and-out rumor needs to be combatted with some real truth. ERAU has its problems - don't get me wrong, it's a real pain sometimes - but it's not this evil, awful institution that charges $400 for a C172. It just ain't that bad...
Sometimes you just have to speak up when your bag of bull$hit gets too heavy...
As far as the long posting goes...well, sometimes disinformation and out-and-out rumor needs to be combatted with some real truth. ERAU has its problems - don't get me wrong, it's a real pain sometimes - but it's not this evil, awful institution that charges $400 for a C172. It just ain't that bad...
Sometimes you just have to speak up when your bag of bull$hit gets too heavy...
saabtrash
I suck.
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 232
With regards to getting a degree in something other than aviation, I must say I agree that it is a "better" choice. However, I think it is hilarious that people think they could get, say, a computer science degree, go be a pilot for 10 years and then still get a job as an IS tech. I think there are plenty of jobs out there that pay an ok salary that are just looking for you to have a degree in something.
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