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EJM Scheduled Ops NO MORE

linder

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Kind of curious about the wording in the contract (section 1) about EJM not being allowed to operate any scheduled service under 121 or 135. Does this mean that NJA pilots are going to be flying the scheduled runs out of Midway that EJM was planning? Hmmmmm, looks like a perfect fit for all the ex-regional guys we have here.
 

holden1

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EJM under Part 380

linder said:
Kind of curious about the wording in the contract (section 1) about EJM not being allowed to operate any scheduled service under 121 or 135. Does this mean that NJA pilots are going to be flying the scheduled runs out of Midway that EJM was planning? Hmmmmm, looks like a perfect fit for all the ex-regional guys we have here.

Umm, not sure about the pilot angle, but if EJM is flying scheduled service they will do it under Part 380 not 121 or 135 based on the # of flights they are planning. It appears to be a significant # (40+ per week).

Holden1
 

Guitar Guy

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Enough
linder said:
Kind of curious about the wording in the contract (section 1) about EJM not being allowed to operate any scheduled service under 121 or 135. Does this mean that NJA pilots are going to be flying the scheduled runs out of Midway that EJM was planning? Hmmmmm, looks like a perfect fit for all the ex-regional guys we have here.

Linder - sounds like you're an NJA pilot. Check the union board. The question has been asked and then answered by a member of the MEC.
 

linder

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Guitar Guy said:
Linder - sounds like you're an NJA pilot. Check the union board. The question has been asked and then answered by a member of the MEC.

I still refuse to participate in that board. I got tired of seeing all the crazy comments, and I don't need the hazing I would get if I stated my opinions (and I promise you that you wouldn't like them). Never post anything under your real name!!!
 

Guitar Guy

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linder said:
I still refuse to participate in that board. I got tired of seeing all the crazy comments, and I don't need the hazing I would get if I stated my opinions (and I promise you that you wouldn't like them). Never post anything under your real name!!!

Linder - you don't need to post over there. Simply go on and read some of the threads. The MEC and NC people have been responding to questions from the membership. In fact, there is a separate area with separate topics for each section of the contract. Section 1 covers scope and the question about EJM scheduled service is answered.

It's worth a few minutes of your time to just read what the MEC/NC people are posting.
 

Diesel

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Linder- Take the time and read the board. Trust me flightinfo is not the place to get information. There are a lot of guys with the same idea that you have that are posting there over there right now.

The board is also broken up into sections so that you can just look at questions about the TA or see anouncements or talk to compliance comittee members.

I would highly recomend it.
 

Grizz

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Any scheduled service other than for a single owner is going to be done by pilots on the IBT 1108 seniority list.

Example: Company ABC wants to run a scheduled service on a ERJ between KDEF and KGHI 5 times a week to move personel around between branches. EJM can manage that aircraft and supply pilots.

Second example: NetJets Aviation, Inc. or any affiliate wants to start a scheduled 135 or 121 service between city pairs such as LA - Chicago and Chicago - NY. Those passengers can be owners, card holders or just ticket holders. IBT 1108 pilots will be flying those flights.

Clear enough?
 
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imotis

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How did you guys manage to suddenly start making policy now for EJM? I can see your valid argument for NJI as they essentially do the same thing that EJA does. EJM doesn't do fractional flying other than the overflow for NJA/Marquise and now you say that ANY scheduled service, other than corporate shuttles, WILL be flown by the Brotherhood. Did someone see something that might be a good thing and want a piece of the action? Is it even legally enforceable?
 

Fozzy

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omits said:
How did you guys manage to suddenly start making policy now for EJM? I can see your valid argument for NJI as they essentially do the same thing that EJA does. EJM doesn't do fractional flying other than the overflow for NJA/Marquise and now you say that ANY scheduled service, other than corporate shuttles, WILL be flown by the Brotherhood. Did someone see something that might be a good thing and want a piece of the action? Is it even legally enforceable?

Since when does EJManagement do scheduled flying???
EJM is part of NJA. And now chipping away at jobs that should be flown by NJA pilots. 91 scheduled service within EJM will still flown by EJM. But everything else comes to NJA (meaning non managed, scheduled service). Scope.

Sorry you don't like it. It is the way it is.
 

imotis

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Fozzy said:
Since when does EJManagement do scheduled flying???
EJM is part of NJA. And now chipping away at jobs that should be flown by NJA pilots. 91 scheduled service within EJM will still flown by EJM. But everything else comes to NJA (meaning non managed, scheduled service). Scope.

Sorry you don't like it. It is the way it is.

In the 80's to mid 90's EJM (then known as American Air Service dba EJM) had a contract with the Federal Reserve Bank to fly cancelled checks around the country in a fleet of Lear 35's on a scheduled service. Some of these pilots still fly for EJM.
While EJM was doing the Intel shuttle (starting with 2 Beech 1900's and growing it to a fleet of 6 EMB-135's and 2 1900's) it was doing scheduled service.
Since when is FRACTIONAL flying scheduled flying? Who says EJM is chipping away at EJA jobs and why SHOULD these trips be flown by EJA pilots? They would not be taking away any current fractional share owners or flying aircraft with QS on the tails. This service would in no way take away ANY of your fractional flying. EJA should just stick with part 91K flying and leave the 135 flying to EJM. How much part 135 flying is EJA doing and chipping away at EJM jobs?
Sounds like seat grabbing to me.
 
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Fozzy

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Can not speak to the AAS flying way back. So I won't.
Intell is part 91.
We are about 60/40 K vs. 135. But that is a ballbark.
Sounds like you are a EJM guy that does not want to join a seniorty list.

I agree to disagree. You?
 

imotis

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I'll agree to disagree with you.

I interviewed with EJM once and flew some contract work for them 10-11 years ago. I got my info by keeping up with what goes on there. I now fly a great airplane for an individual owner.

I applaud you all for getting the pay raises you deserve and getting the NJI concessions. You do have valid arguments concering scope with them because they DO do the same thing as you. Are you going to get NJE/NJME as well?

What bothers me is the fact for the past 4+ years of negotiations the only mention of EJM was that they could not fly QS airplanes/owners except under special agreed-upon circumstances. ie aircraft for sale and only for a few months, overflow trips, etc. No talk of EJM going union, taking jobs from EJA pilots, etc. In the past couple of months it is made public that EJM wants to start scheduled service. Suddenly the new TA comes out and scope now includes fractional flying that NJI does AND any scheduled service (other than corporate shuttles) that EJM does. I don't understand how scheduled service can in anyway threaten the jobs of fractional pilots. It just sounds like greed on the union's part to me.

If there is talk of unionizing EJM how is it planned on being done? I would guess that about 90%, more or less, of the pilots flying for EJM are not NETJETS employees. Is it possible to make pilots that are not EJM employees join a union? Not trying to be smart, I just don't know.
 

Fozzy

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Good conversation.
My take is the reason you didn't hear much about EJM in the past is because there was no real threat. As long as sell offs were kept under control. That was the basic issue. Then this whole scheduled (135) thing comes up. That got our attention. We are not grabbing seats. This does not exist, yet. We see it as growing the company and getting around having union pilots. No different than if a SSBJ shows up and they try to alter ego that. Thus, our TA'd scope. As far as unionizing EJM, I don't see it. They are in the aircraft management business.
But this scheduled stuff is defiantly not aircraft management.
Keep in mind I am just a worker bee. I could be totally off base. Wouldn't be the first time.
Maybe we should ask FamilyGuy. He knows everything.:rolleyes:
 
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Fozzy

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You are correct sir. But on who's back is that baby being grown? And where are the airplanes coming from? Who is buying them?
Gota run.
 

imotis

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Fozzy said:
You are correct sir. But on who's back is that baby being grown? And where are the airplanes coming from? Who is buying them?
Gota run.

EJM.
Don't know.
Don't know.

See ya later.
 

FL450

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For some time now, long before the recent EJM news, NJA has heard talk of scheduled service. Especially true for NJLA and pursuit of a 121 certificate to fly 30-40 seat 737s. Flying scheduled or flying fractional, flying is flying is flying. True EJM did the Intel thing for quite some time, but if the aircraft is a "fractional aircraft", it should be flown by fractional pilots. The new scope language is what it is.
 

imotis

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FL450 said:
For some time now, long before the recent EJM news, NJA has heard talk of scheduled service. Especially true for NJLA and pursuit of a 121 certificate to fly 30-40 seat 737s. Flying scheduled or flying fractional, flying is flying is flying. True EJM did the Intel thing for quite some time, but if the aircraft is a "fractional aircraft", it should be flown by fractional pilots. The new scope language is what it is.

I'm all for fractional pilots flying "fractional aircraft". If NetJets buys SSBJ's or some such thing and they sell shares in them then they should be flown by union pilots. However, if they're not fractional aircraft I don't believe the union has any right to dictate who flys them.
 
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