Eclipse 500

[RNObased]

I think they have a hope of working as Dayjet plans around Florida if their numbers hold up to reality. If they can keep the price low to go direct from one smaller place to another they may bring in the business men who are on day trips. If they want to go to high density airports (even high density GA airports like TEB) they are going to have some problems with giant ramp fees even with buying fuel since the FBOs won't make the money they need for the ramp space on fuel alone. A ramp fee of a few hundred dollars will throw the economics of the VLJ out the window. Those fees will raise and happen at more and more places as the ramps get more and more full with more airplanes.

This is a exellent point that I didn't think about. They won't take enough gas to get the ramp fees wavied at busier airports. This is deal killer in some cases.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Dayjet has some high minimums:

Minimum Qualifications
To be able to deliver the best customer experience in regional travel, DayJet pilots must meet the following minimum qualifications:
3,000 hours flight time (excluding helicopter, simulator and flight engineer time)
1,000 hours as Pilot-in-Command (PIC)
1,000 hours multi-engine
500 hours turbo-jet PIC

And they sound like they want to do single-pilot ops in the future:

Will you fly with one or two pilots?
While the Eclipse 500 very light jet aircraft will be certified for single pilot operations, DayJet will initially operate each aircraft with two pilots.

All of that info is from the Dayjet website. I didn't see anything about compensation though. Makes one wonder...

 

[The_Russian]

I think they have a hope of working as Dayjet plans around Florida if their numbers hold up to reality. If they can keep the price low to go direct from one smaller place to another they may bring in the business men who are on day trips. If they want to go to high density airports (even high density GA airports like TEB) they are going to have some problems with giant ramp fees even with buying fuel since the FBOs won't make the money they need for the ramp space on fuel alone. A ramp fee of a few hundred dollars will throw the economics of the VLJ out the window. Those fees will raise and happen at more and more places as the ramps get more and more full with more airplanes.

They are also going to have a hard time crewing all these airplanes. The regionals already have a hard time getting pilots. The fractionals are growing and the the majors are starting to spool up their hiring. They are going to have to offer good pay and benefits to get the pilots they need and good pay and benefits tend to raise the price of the service offered. I guess we'll wait and see what happens as the VLJs come on line.

That being said, they had better hope the FAA doesn't approve the user fees they want to.

 

[Tgaug6300]

How fast do you have to go? I file (and get) all the way up to FL410 with 350-370 TAS. Sometimes, I have to take a vector or delayed climb to filed FL, but it's really not an issue.

Is that in the Eclipse? It is my understanding that with the avionics issues they have been having the airplane is not even RVSM cert. yet (however, they give you a handy dandy Garmin 496 handheld GPS). The fastest I've seen them on Flightaware is 290kts.

 

[JimNtexas]

My only concern with this airplane is that it has no independant backup adi.

It was certified on the basis that each of the three displays can display attitude information from any of the 2 or 3 adhr systems, providing an equivalent level of safety to the normal practice of providing a backup attitude indicator of some kind.

If all the glass goes blank there is no attitude information. (I've heard a rumor that Dayjet sticks a backup ADI on the glareshield).

Every other IFR legal airplane I'm aware of, from the C-172 to the F-22, A-380, and B-777, all have an independent backup attitude instrument of some kind.

The Eclipse may be unique in using the primary displays for backup attitude information.

 

[Publishers]

To be successful, the market for single passenger road warriers must be there and at a price point that it works for that group.
The number of people that it will serve is relatively minor in my opinion. When I used to have a personal aircraft, my wife and two kids traveled with more stuff than I could get in an Aztec and eventually I had to get a 402 for the room. The King Air owner/pilot might think about this but really is the Aztec, Baron, Navajo set ready to go to 41k, not that most of the time you have enough range to get up there. All these companies want a piece of the market and when all is done, I am afraid that if you add up all the market share estimates, you come up with 300% of the actual market.

 

[gunfyter]

To be successful, the market for single passenger road warriers must be there and at a price point that it works for that group.
The number of people that it will serve is relatively minor in my opinion. ...set ready to go to 41k, not that most of the time you have enough range to get up there. All these companies want a piece of the market and when all is done, I am afraid that if you add up all the market share estimates, you come up with 300% of the actual market.

And... if pilot hiring @ regionals, majors, fracs etc.. continue to the point that qualified pilots for hire become more expensive...

... it will be difficult to hire and KEEP people on the staff that will allow such a price point... Considerig the Minimums they are looking for @ DAYJET. The Fracs will love to hire pilots with that kind of experience.

 

[skydan5]

Dayjet has some high minimums:


As usual, the minimums are dictated by the insurance companies. I bet that the two-pilot requirement is in place so that pilots can acquire enough time to fly the aircraft single pilot. Then who's gonna want to fly a jet-powered bug smasher with the required time for single pilot PIC at the wages that fit the business model! Hmmm.

 

[Guitar Guy]

As usual, the minimums are dictated by the insurance companies. I bet that the two-pilot requirement is in place so that pilots can acquire enough time to fly the aircraft single pilot. Then who's gonna want to fly a jet-powered bug smasher with the required time for single pilot PIC at the wages that fit the business model! Hmmm.

Any word on what pay is at DayJet?

 

[wmuflyguy]

Is that in the Eclipse? It is my understanding that with the avionics issues they have been having the airplane is not even RVSM cert. yet (however, they give you a handy dandy Garmin 496 handheld GPS). The fastest I've seen them on Flightaware is 290kts.

Actually they had a Pitot/Static Issue. The first planes DayJet received were not even IFR certified.

This issue was that after sitting out in the rain or in a very humid environment water would pool in the system, when it got to altitude the water would freeze and all the Pitot/Static systems would go to hell.

They found the problem and have a mod, so it is only a matter of time.

One of the first test flights for DayJet was a VFR flight, becuase the plane hadn't had the mod yet.

I got this info from my younger brother who worked for eclipse out in ABQ for some time. He said he is glad he isn't there anymore, because he isn't sure the company can deliver what they have promised. They have ran into all sorts of problems during production certification, the price has soared from the original projection, and aircraft already delivered have to be brought in for modifications.