Eclipse 500

[Publishers]

To be successful, the market for single passenger road warriers must be there and at a price point that it works for that group.
The number of people that it will serve is relatively minor in my opinion. When I used to have a personal aircraft, my wife and two kids traveled with more stuff than I could get in an Aztec and eventually I had to get a 402 for the room. The King Air owner/pilot might think about this but really is the Aztec, Baron, Navajo set ready to go to 41k, not that most of the time you have enough range to get up there. All these companies want a piece of the market and when all is done, I am afraid that if you add up all the market share estimates, you come up with 300% of the actual market.

 

[gunfyter]

To be successful, the market for single passenger road warriers must be there and at a price point that it works for that group.
The number of people that it will serve is relatively minor in my opinion. ...set ready to go to 41k, not that most of the time you have enough range to get up there. All these companies want a piece of the market and when all is done, I am afraid that if you add up all the market share estimates, you come up with 300% of the actual market.

And... if pilot hiring @ regionals, majors, fracs etc.. continue to the point that qualified pilots for hire become more expensive...

... it will be difficult to hire and KEEP people on the staff that will allow such a price point... Considerig the Minimums they are looking for @ DAYJET. The Fracs will love to hire pilots with that kind of experience.

 

[skydan5]

Dayjet has some high minimums:


As usual, the minimums are dictated by the insurance companies. I bet that the two-pilot requirement is in place so that pilots can acquire enough time to fly the aircraft single pilot. Then who's gonna want to fly a jet-powered bug smasher with the required time for single pilot PIC at the wages that fit the business model! Hmmm.

 

[Guitar Guy]

As usual, the minimums are dictated by the insurance companies. I bet that the two-pilot requirement is in place so that pilots can acquire enough time to fly the aircraft single pilot. Then who's gonna want to fly a jet-powered bug smasher with the required time for single pilot PIC at the wages that fit the business model! Hmmm.

Any word on what pay is at DayJet?

 

[wmuflyguy]

Is that in the Eclipse? It is my understanding that with the avionics issues they have been having the airplane is not even RVSM cert. yet (however, they give you a handy dandy Garmin 496 handheld GPS). The fastest I've seen them on Flightaware is 290kts.

Actually they had a Pitot/Static Issue. The first planes DayJet received were not even IFR certified.

This issue was that after sitting out in the rain or in a very humid environment water would pool in the system, when it got to altitude the water would freeze and all the Pitot/Static systems would go to hell.

They found the problem and have a mod, so it is only a matter of time.

One of the first test flights for DayJet was a VFR flight, becuase the plane hadn't had the mod yet.

I got this info from my younger brother who worked for eclipse out in ABQ for some time. He said he is glad he isn't there anymore, because he isn't sure the company can deliver what they have promised. They have ran into all sorts of problems during production certification, the price has soared from the original projection, and aircraft already delivered have to be brought in for modifications.

 

[GONEFLYIN21]

I personally have little faith in the Eclipse...I have a feeling we're going to see a lot of owner operator accidents and these cahrter companies (the one in Boston and Day Jet) are going to have problems with the areas they operate out of. Boston area- NYC Or washington will be tough since the controllers aren't going to allow high altitudes to be achieved. I also think customers will be dissapointed when their golf clubs can't fit in the jet. I suppose the average business folk going to NYC or DC wont have much of a problem but the speed isnt that impressive for the costs of operating and what not...I do however totally oppose that new Jet Eclipse came out with, with the V-tail...Didn't beechcraft prove that the V-Tail wasn't safe in cross winds...why did they come up with a concept for a jet powered v-tail? Its gotta be bad in crosswinds...I expect to see a lot of problems with that...and doctors are gonna love them! bad mix!!! uggg....oh well.

 

[cezzna]

I've thought all along that this will end up being the NetJets regional jet. DayJet shoulders the expense and risk of getting the thing into the air in a large quantity. It will take time for maintenance and parts networks to get up an humming. Then, I think we all know DayJet will be a failure. Once the network and all other things are in place AND it's losing lots of money (hey it's aviation, and no weekend or night flying?, it'll never work), Uncle Warren sees an undervalued asset and buys the whole thing for 25 cents on the dollar. He makes it an entirely separate company to avoid union scope issues. I know that is another ball of wax completely and can be argued forever.

Condensed version

1. It's gonna fail
2. Someones going to buy it.
3. NetJets lite the fractional for wannabes

 

[cezzna]

4. B scale wages.
5. A new flight school "direct hire to jet" if you just take the eclipse course for 50K.
6. Starting pay 18k
7. The dreaded flow through carrot.
8. A stack of SJS resumes a mile deep.

 

[rfresh]

I'm reminded of a similar thing with cars - years ago in NY a taxi cab company converted all their cabs over to the new (at the time) diesel VW Rabbits which got around 50mpg. The company launched a marketing blitz about how they "hopped to it" for customer service. When they actually went into service they discovered there was no place for luggage except on the roof - in less than a year they were back to full size sedans.

I think the Eclipse will be not only too small but too many pax will show up with too many and too heavy suit cases - I just don't see it working.

 

[rfresh]

A couple of other odd things have happen with Eclipse:

1. Just prior to FAA certification they suddenly dropped United Airlines as their offical training school and went with another company. Has anyone heard why? I can't help but wonder if they signed up early to go with UAL to help make sales with customers knowing they were going to get "airline" level training and then pull the plug late in the game and go with a cheaper school.

2. Again, just prior to certification they suddenly decided to change EFIS manufacturers - has anyone heard why they did this?

 

[Tired Soul]

I've been keeping track of things here;
http://eclipseaviationcritic.blogspot.com/




the guy seems a little bitter but generally good info.