Easiest way to kill yourself in a plane

[9GClub]

Fellow Flightnuts,

I'm set to begin flight training (in the mighty and venerable C172..... maybe I'll do some JATO stuff to spruce it up a bit, we'll see) in earnest in a couple months, and I wanted to get some feedback from those of you who have a bit more than my 0.8 hours PIC. What are some classic rookie mistakes I should be aware of? There are basic maneuvering no-nos (i.e. don't overshoot the runway with a tailwind base and then buy the farm in a cross-controlled blaze of glory), and we've all read stories about the classic rookie hot-shot performing a textbook accelerated stall over his house at 50' AGL, 80 degrees of bank, and 438 G's......but how about some more subtle stuff? I'm primarily interested in maneuvering flight issues, but everything's fair game.... fuel management; weather (including ice); wings, undercarrriage, and stick-on CO detector all falling off the aircraft simultaneously, etc. Feel free to divulge some of your rookie-stupidity anecdotes too. We'll all laugh at you for a few weeks and then add them to our respective "experience bags." Thanks in advance for helping to edumacate a rookie......

 

[Goose Egg]

Have you ever heard the saying that goes something like "Superior pilots use superior judgement to avoid having to use their superior flying skill."

Unfortunately, another saying also applies: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."

Anyway, buzzing, ignoring the checklist, and pushing weather are all really good ways of offing yourself. Read the accident reports. You'll see.

I'm sure there are many other people with more to say on the subject, but that's my $0.02.

-Goose

 

[ohiopilot]

Well, I just took my PP checkride two weeks ago and can just say that your instructor will teach you this stuff as you go. I wouldn't worry about learning that stuff on an internet forum. Just my .02 since just going through it.

Now, for some of my stupid things:

1) While out practicing stalls by myself, I was getting the configurations mixed up as far as power-off/on stalls, flaps, etc. Make sure you know that power-on does NOT use flaps and that power-off uses full. Etc.

2) When a 172 is on a 5 mile final and you are turning final, don't freak out and do a go-around. LOL (I had PLENTY of time, plus I was much lower than he.)

Enjoy!

 

[Vik]

Stop watching Top Gun at least a year prior to starting training, but since it appears that you're still watching it over and over, I suggest you stop now.

Fellow Flightnuts,

I'm set to begin flight training (in the mighty and venerable C172..... maybe I'll do some JATO stuff to spruce it up a bit, we'll see) in earnest in a couple months, and I wanted to get some feedback from those of you who have a bit more than my 0.8 hours PIC. What are some classic rookie mistakes I should be aware of? There are basic maneuvering no-nos (i.e. don't overshoot the runway with a tailwind base and then buy the farm in a cross-controlled blaze of glory), and we've all read stories about the classic rookie hot-shot performing a textbook accelerated stall over his house at 50' AGL, 80 degrees of bank, and 438 G's......but how about some more subtle stuff? I'm primarily interested in maneuvering flight issues, but everything's fair game.... fuel management; weather (including ice); wings, undercarrriage, and stick-on CO detector all falling off the aircraft simultaneously, etc. Feel free to divulge some of your rookie-stupidity anecdotes too. We'll all laugh at you for a few weeks and then add them to our respective "experience bags." Thanks in advance for helping to edumacate a rookie......

 

[mayday1]

do a good preflight (airplane, weather, performance, fuel, etc.). takeoffs are optional, landings are mandatory.

one small tip... verify the mags are in the "both" position prior to takeoff. a mag in a L or R position might lead to a very rough running engine, and a scary situation... or so I've heard : )

 

[avbug]

Switch tanks before takeoff. Burn off the bottom half of your tank. Don't preflight. Don't warm your engine before takeoff. Don't lean for takeoff, or at altitude. Ignore carburetor ice. Don't sump your fuel tanks. Put the checklist in the seat back and ignore it. Wipe off oil leaks...they fix themselves. Handprop the airplane without adequate training. Practice spins on your own without training. Run your tire pressures low. Use automotive fuel. Fly low. And a thousand other things.

Rather than worry about what could hurt or kill you, concentrate on merely learning to fly. Do that properly, and you're much more likely to come out ahead.

 

[Uncle Sparky]

Well, I just took my PP checkride two weeks ago and can just say that your instructor will teach you this stuff as you go. I wouldn't worry about learning that stuff on an internet forum. Just my .02 since just going through it.

Actually, I think talking to an experienced pilot, whether it be on the internet or down at the airport is a good way to start. As far as the instructor, listen to what he has to say but remember that most are barely past the student stage themselves. What I mean by this is: they have complied with all of the FAA requirements up to the qualifications of CFI but generally don't have a lot of the real world training(they haven't had a chance to make all of the mistakes!). My biggest advice.....Never stop using your own eyes. Don't assume the instructor sees all traffic and when tower clears you onto a runway, check the approach path yourself to be sure your not about to be runover. Controllers can and have made mistakes before! Ultimately, the burden rests on your shoulders. Look up "see and avoid" in the FAR/AIM. Use your eyes.....

 

[minitour]

1) While out practicing stalls by myself, I was getting the configurations mixed up as far as power-off/on stalls, flaps, etc. Make sure you know that power-on does NOT use flaps and that power-off uses full. Etc.

if you don't use flaps in a power on stall, how do you slow to rotate speed before you kick in the juice? You'd already be so close to stalling that the power would make you stall...

at least the way they're teaching it here is flaps 10 (C152) slow to 55-60kts, add full power and shut off the carb heat, you'll pitch up, the speed bleeds off, you stall...

Just curious is all...don't take it as anything but that.

As for "stupid mistakes":

Saying "with you" ... and "tally ho" ... and "checkin in" ... well just read the other thread and you'll learn all sorts of things not to say.

I'd say just keep it coordinated...you won't "end up in a cross controlled blaze of glory" if you don't get cross controlled...you won't spin if you're coordinated...all the things they scare you with during PPL training.

hmm...things I did that I learned a lot from...
OH I know!

When learning how to land with your CFI...don't cut the power at 100' and start to flare at 50'...it makes for a bumpy ride down the runway. And don't be afraid to go around...if something doesn't look right, don't end up with one main on the runway and the other taking out runway edge lights...just go around, line it up again and set up a squeeker...

Good Luck!

-mini

 

[rumpletumbler]

And for those random failures later on and to triple maintenance costs.....never, ever....lean on the ground.

 

[minitour]

...lean on the ground.

I agree..it's much better to walk on then lean on....

har har har

 

[ohiopilot]

I didn't mean ONLY use your instructor. I spent a lot of time just chillin at the airports on Saturday/Sundays on bad days chatting it up with the ones who hung out there. You'll definetely learn a LOT.

 

[rumpletumbler]

Chillin? Please tell me you aren't a licensed pilot.

 

[Vandal]

Stop watching Top Gun at least a year prior to starting training, but since it appears that you're still watching it over and over, I suggest you stop now.

Glad I wasn't the only one who thought that...

 

[JAFI]

Always err to the safety side.

More pilots have died because of ego than mechanical malfuctions. (loosely quoted from Gen. Chuck Yeager)

You have two ears and one mouth. That means listen two times more than talk.

Ask questions, but have good sources, double check your sources.

Study your lesson before you show up at the airport.

Just a few....

JAFI

 

[Goose Egg]

if you don't use flaps in a power on stall, how do you slow to rotate speed before you kick in the juice?

Let's see, I think they call it energy management.

...at least the way they're teaching it here is flaps 10 (C152) slow to 55-60kts, add full power and shut off the carb heat, you'll pitch up, the speed bleeds off, you stall...

I'm not going to sit here and, uh, type that using flaps on a power-on stall is the absolute wrong way to do things; because after all, a stall is a stall, and it can happen whenever the critical angle of attack is exceeded. But it does strike me as a little unorthodox and uneccessary, as it is actually fairly easy to slow down enough without flaps before adding power, and that is in bigger and heavier airplanes. In a C-152 it shouldn't be any trouble at all.

Now, if you were simulating a departure stall in a short or soft field situation, that's a completely different story. But if you are doing a power-on stall as part of a task area on a practical test, I'd learn how to leave the flaps out of it.

-Goose

 

[avbug]

And for those random failures later on and to triple maintenance costs.....never, ever....lean on the ground.

Huh??

 

[minitour]

Let's see, I think they call it energy management.

Okay...fair game

Now, if you were simulating a departure stall in a short or soft field situation, that's a completely different story. But if you are doing a power-on stall as part of a task area on a practical test, I'd learn how to leave the flaps out of it.

-Goose

It's funny that you bring up the PTS because in The Commercial Pilot PTS I have in front of me it says:

VIII. AREA OF OPERATION: SLOW FLIGHT AND STALLS
C. TASK: POWER-ON STALLS (ASEL and ASES)
*chopped to keep you reading*
Objective. To determine that the applicant:
*chopped again to keep you reading*
7. Retracts flaps to the recommended setting, retracts the landing gear if retractable, after a positive rate of climb is established.

...so before I go busting the checkride for using 10* of flaps (it'll be in a 172RG) for the power on stall demonstration, tell me again why it's wrong?

-mini

 

[Goose Egg]

...so before I go busting the checkride for using 10* of flaps (it'll be in a 172RG) for the power on stall demonstration, tell me again why it's wrong?

First of all, if you will kindly refer to my original post, I explicitly stated that performing a power-on stall with flaps was not necessarily the "wrong" way to do it. And may I add that using 10 degrees of flaps to help slow the airplane for a power-on stall is completely unnecessary. However, to use 10 degrees of flaps in a power-on stall to simulate a takeoff configuration is realistic and concievable. Let's get that straight.

Secondly, the power-on stall is practiced to gain proficiency in recovering from stalls in takeoff and climbout conditions and configurations. Since zero flaps is an approved takeoff setting for the C-172RG, your examiner could concievably ask you to perform it in that configuration. I'd be prepared for it.

Fortunately, preparing for it consists of about 5 min. of extra stall practice.

-Goose

 

[Goose Egg]

One more thing...

It just so happens that I have a 1981 Cutlass RG Information Manual here, and I did a bit of checking.

From page 4-16 of the manual:

"Normal and short field takeoffs are accomplished with the wing flaps 0*... At takeoff weights of 2550 pounds or less, (max gross is 2650) 10* may be used if desired for minimum ground runs or takeoffs from soft or rough fields."

Now, I don't know what year of Cutlass you are flying, but it sounds to me that you ought to be ready to do a power-on stall with the flaps up. Also, I think it's kind of interesting that the use of any flap setting other than 0* is not allowed when the aircraft is within 100 lbs. of max gross weight. (I honestly have no idea why that is, but it is interesting.)

-Goose

 

[rumpletumbler]

Huh??

the mixture (and I was kidding)

 

[Vandal]

Okay...fair game

It's funny that you bring up the PTS because in The Commercial Pilot PTS I have in front of me it says:

VIII. AREA OF OPERATION: SLOW FLIGHT AND STALLS
C. TASK: POWER-ON STALLS (ASEL and ASES)
*chopped to keep you reading*
Objective. To determine that the applicant:
*chopped again to keep you reading*
7. Retracts flaps to the recommended setting, retracts the landing gear if retractable, after a positive rate of climb is established.

...so before I go busting the checkride for using 10* of flaps (it'll be in a 172RG) for the power on stall demonstration, tell me again why it's wrong?

-mini

This is like listening to third graders try to argue quantum mechanics...

 

[Birdstrike]

Couple more ideas: Know where you are on a sectional all the time...don't rely on GPS or even a VOR...change the flashlight batteries once in awhile...carry a spare everything...an empty plastic liter bottle can be worth its weight in gold (when full)...update your weather hourly...invest in a good quality headset of your own...learn how to really read airport signs and runway markings...use worst case fuel burn figures off the charts.

 

[JediNein]

Actually quantum mechanics was very understandable in the third grade. It becomes difficult when the college professors try to inflate their egos by making it difficult when they don't have a firm grasp on relativity on uncertainty.

Grab a copy of the book, "The Killing Zone." That's what you need to know to get through 300-500 hours. Hopefully you chose a good instructor and won't have to worry about hours .9-300.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[minitour]

...Also, I think it's kind of interesting that the use of any flap setting other than 0* is not allowed when the aircraft is within 100 lbs. of max gross weight. (I honestly have no idea why that is, but it is interesting.)

-Goose

...haven't been able to get a good answer on that either. I always thought the idea of a short field takeoff was to get off the ground the quickest...if you aren't using flaps, how does your ground roll shorten?

-mini

PS
Sorry for the confusion on the original post

 

[9GClub]

Yep,

I've got a copy of "The Killing Zone" (Paul Craig) and also "Beyond the Checkride" (Howard Fried). I highly recommend both. Also, I've found that watching "Top Gun" at least three times a week is good mental preparation.

As for the short field, can't you kick in 10 degrees and hold Vx (in the -172)? And, for the soft-field, use flaps and then retract or reduce 'em in ground effect?

 

[ohiopilot]

I was taught to never reduce your flaps until you had a couple of hundred feet under you. When you do it, it causes the airplane to pitch (unfavorably if you're too close).

 

[minitour]

...
As for the short field, can't you kick in 10 degrees and hold Vx (in the -172)? And, for the soft-field, use flaps and then retract or reduce 'em in ground effect?

thats what I always thought (except for retracting in ground effect...I usually wait til I've cleared the obstacle and excellerated to Vy) but the RG POH says 0 flaps...still don't know why though...

-mini

 

[Goose Egg]

This is like listening to third graders try to argue quantum mechanics...

Oh come on. I've got to be in the 5th grade, at least!

-Goose

 

[91100 100 set]

This probably won't kill you, but it can be very distressing and embarassing... make sure you know how to work the audio panel on the airplane. I once screwed up the little 3 position switch in the 152 I was soloing in. Headphone, Speaker, or Off. And yep, somehow it ended up in the Off position without me knowing it. Good thing I was still only in the run-up pad. To this day I don't know how or when it got there, or how I got from the ramp to the run-up area with it off! Years later and a few more buttons on the audio panel, people still can do that, as it's not at all uncommon to hear folks talking to their push crew or passengers on clearance or ground. That's something I still have not done, but I'm sure I will at some point.

 

[bender]

Grab a copy of the book, "The Killing Zone." That's what you need to know to get through 300-500 hours. Hopefully you chose a good instructor and won't have to worry about hours .9-300.

Yep,

I've got a copy of "The Killing Zone" (Paul Craig) and also "Beyond the Checkride" (Howard Fried). I highly recommend both.

I third the book - It kept me from even contemplating scud running back into my home field back when I was fresh out of the PPL checkride.