minitour said:
...so before I go busting the checkride for using 10* of flaps (it'll be in a 172RG) for the power on stall demonstration, tell me again why it's wrong?
-mini
-mini, 9G, and anyone else who cares, you can't get all wrapped up on specific flap settings on checkrides.
Look at the Private and Commercial PTS under power on stalls.
Look at Item no. 3 under Objective in both of them:
"3) Establishes the takeoff or departure configuration."
Look at the references under stalls and you will see FAA-8083-3, (Airplane Flying Handbook) and the POH.
In the Airplane Flying Handbook, Chapter 5, page 5-7, second sentence, first paragraph, under Power-On Stalls: "Airplanes equipped with flaps and/or retractable gear should normally be in the take-off configuration; however, power-on stalls should also be practiced in a clean configuration (flasps and/or gear retracted) as in departure and normal climbs."
The examiner is supposed to call for the configuration and the student sets it up as prescribed in the POH for that specific aircraft's configuration for the type of take-off the examiner calls for, ie., normal, short-field, soft-field, whatever is in the POH.
Now,...having said that, I know that most schools and most examiners have a "way" they want to see it done,....and THAT becomes THE WAY in that area.
However, I hope you can see that the flight training should be stalls in all possible (not just probable, but POSSIBLE) configurations.
BTW, while we are in Chapter 5, Stalls, you will notice that Secondary Stalls, Accelerated Stalls, Cross-Control Stalls, and Elevator Trim Stalls are also a part of the training that should be done with Student Pilots. Not just Instructors.
There is a big confusion in the Training Industry about these Stalls.
These Stalls are listed in the Flight Instructor's PTS as Demonstration Stalls, while the Power-On and Power-Off Stalls are listed as Proficiency Stalls.
This sets up the Illusion that these Demonstration Stalls should only be demonstrated to students. But if you know and care anything about teaching, you know that an airplane has to be hand-flown to understand. Just like spins. or landings. or anything that you should know about in an airplane. it must be flown to understand.
The difference between the word "Proficiency" and "Demonstration" in this context is that the Power-On and Power-Off Stalls have to be done to a Proficiency level as described by the appropriate PTS for that cetificate or rating, and the Demonstration Stalls are "demonstrated to a level of satisfactory proficiency and safety as judged by the instructor."
I quoted that line from 61.87 (c)(2) which is the student pilot pre-solo requirement.
Now, before anybody flames me for my own interpretation of this, I'm really only about trying to insure that we train as best as we can by exposing the student to a variety of experiences, not just PTS maneuvers.
Avbug points out that a student should be able to cut the power over the field and glide to a safe landing. Because he should. But that isn't explicitly spelled out in 61.87. It just says: (e)(13)Approaches to a landing area with simulated engine malfuctions.
But that is a good way to execute this training. The 180, and the 360 overhead power off approaches described in Chapter 7 of the AFH is an excellent way of developing this skill for student pilots. Regardless of certificate or rating.
As instructors, and as student pilots (regardless of your certificate/rating), we should all be teaching and learning at least ALL of the skills in the Airplane Flying Handbook. The PTS is supposed to be a standardized sampling of those skills. Just because a cross-controlled stall isn't on the Privare PTS, don't you want to be skilled at knowing how that stall feels and how to recognize and recover? And don't even think about saying, "Well, I'll just concentrate on staying coordinated".
Don't you have to do slips? Don't you have to slip it every time you make a cross-wind landing?