Easiest way to kill yourself in a plane

[Vandal]

Okay...fair game

It's funny that you bring up the PTS because in The Commercial Pilot PTS I have in front of me it says:

VIII. AREA OF OPERATION: SLOW FLIGHT AND STALLS
C. TASK: POWER-ON STALLS (ASEL and ASES)
*chopped to keep you reading*
Objective. To determine that the applicant:
*chopped again to keep you reading*
7. Retracts flaps to the recommended setting, retracts the landing gear if retractable, after a positive rate of climb is established.

...so before I go busting the checkride for using 10* of flaps (it'll be in a 172RG) for the power on stall demonstration, tell me again why it's wrong?

-mini

This is like listening to third graders try to argue quantum mechanics...

 

[Birdstrike]

Couple more ideas: Know where you are on a sectional all the time...don't rely on GPS or even a VOR...change the flashlight batteries once in awhile...carry a spare everything...an empty plastic liter bottle can be worth its weight in gold (when full)...update your weather hourly...invest in a good quality headset of your own...learn how to really read airport signs and runway markings...use worst case fuel burn figures off the charts.

 

[JediNein]

Actually quantum mechanics was very understandable in the third grade. It becomes difficult when the college professors try to inflate their egos by making it difficult when they don't have a firm grasp on relativity on uncertainty.

Grab a copy of the book, "The Killing Zone." That's what you need to know to get through 300-500 hours. Hopefully you chose a good instructor and won't have to worry about hours .9-300.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[minitour]

...Also, I think it's kind of interesting that the use of any flap setting other than 0* is not allowed when the aircraft is within 100 lbs. of max gross weight. (I honestly have no idea why that is, but it is interesting.)

-Goose

...haven't been able to get a good answer on that either. I always thought the idea of a short field takeoff was to get off the ground the quickest...if you aren't using flaps, how does your ground roll shorten?

-mini

PS
Sorry for the confusion on the original post

 

[9GClub]

Yep,

I've got a copy of "The Killing Zone" (Paul Craig) and also "Beyond the Checkride" (Howard Fried). I highly recommend both. Also, I've found that watching "Top Gun" at least three times a week is good mental preparation.

As for the short field, can't you kick in 10 degrees and hold Vx (in the -172)? And, for the soft-field, use flaps and then retract or reduce 'em in ground effect?

 

[ohiopilot]

I was taught to never reduce your flaps until you had a couple of hundred feet under you. When you do it, it causes the airplane to pitch (unfavorably if you're too close).

 

[minitour]

...
As for the short field, can't you kick in 10 degrees and hold Vx (in the -172)? And, for the soft-field, use flaps and then retract or reduce 'em in ground effect?

thats what I always thought (except for retracting in ground effect...I usually wait til I've cleared the obstacle and excellerated to Vy) but the RG POH says 0 flaps...still don't know why though...

-mini

 

[Goose Egg]

This is like listening to third graders try to argue quantum mechanics...

Oh come on. I've got to be in the 5th grade, at least!

-Goose

 

[91100 100 set]

This probably won't kill you, but it can be very distressing and embarassing... make sure you know how to work the audio panel on the airplane. I once screwed up the little 3 position switch in the 152 I was soloing in. Headphone, Speaker, or Off. And yep, somehow it ended up in the Off position without me knowing it. Good thing I was still only in the run-up pad. To this day I don't know how or when it got there, or how I got from the ramp to the run-up area with it off! Years later and a few more buttons on the audio panel, people still can do that, as it's not at all uncommon to hear folks talking to their push crew or passengers on clearance or ground. That's something I still have not done, but I'm sure I will at some point.

 

[bender]

Grab a copy of the book, "The Killing Zone." That's what you need to know to get through 300-500 hours. Hopefully you chose a good instructor and won't have to worry about hours .9-300.

Yep,

I've got a copy of "The Killing Zone" (Paul Craig) and also "Beyond the Checkride" (Howard Fried). I highly recommend both.

I third the book - It kept me from even contemplating scud running back into my home field back when I was fresh out of the PPL checkride.

 

[minitour]

...it's not at all uncommon to hear folks talking to their push crew or passengers on clearance or ground...

Or the other way around!

Wife's first time on an airplane:

"Ground, Citrus 9....ah"

 

[gangdev]

Full Throttle Landing

Don't assume or feel that nothing will ever go wrong, and thus become lackadaisical while flying or preflighting. About three weeks ago I was flying a piper cadet around the Phoenix area, just coming out of a climb, and so pulled the throttle back to cruise power, with no response. I pulled the throttle back even more to idle and then back to full power setting - still no response - only full rpm. After grabbing under the dash to feel for the throttle cable (i assumed was broken), I just enriched the mixture & turned on carb heat to keep the engine from red-lining during my quick flight back to my home airport. The approach was at 125 knots as opposed to the normal 65, and I cut the mixture on short final so that I could actually land.
A mechanic later told me "well, the throttle cable was 28 years old, and finally gave in". good thing the cable broke with the throttle valve full open instead of idle...
Lesson: be alert for anything, because just about anything can happen. Also, eliminate distrations such as idle talk during important things such as preflight or approach. Not good when you overlook something important - You can have fun when you are ahead of your plane

 

[avbug]

You're more likely to have a landing accident trying to land at twice your normal approach speed, than simpy chopping the engine over the field and landing without power.

After all, being able to do that is a solo requirement.

 

[gangdev]

well I cut the mixture on final before landing on a 10000 foot runway (williams gateway) no problem there, and still rolled off on the first taxiway...

 

[9GClub]

Gangdev,

Dang, that had to be pretty interesting. That's the kind of stuff I think of when I think worst-case scenario..... throttle cable breakage or other catastrophic mechanical failure. Anybody ever lost pitch or roll control due to cable breakage, jamming, etc.? How about pedals sticking or electric flaps crappin' out?

I hate to sound so pessimistic, especially when I don't have a whole lot of actual flight experience ("Dude, take some Prozac and stay off the freaking flightline!"), but I don't think you can go wrong by mentally working through all the Murphy's Law stuff you can come up with. It shouldn't be a fear-motivated thing necessarily (although a little of that probably can't hurt), but rather a recognition of and respect for the variables inherent in flying. Stuff breaks, and parachutes-- as the Governator would say-- are for girly-men. The alternative, of course, is to land the sucker (or crash it gracefully) and then emerge exhibiting the classic pilot egotistical aloofness that exudes supreme confidence and terribly impresses any females that happen to be watching from outside the perimeter fence. Or from inside the fence. Or if you landed outside the perimeter fence, then you'll have to exhibit an increased measure of egotistical aloofness to make up for your lack of proper crashing skills. Try not to land on the females or on the fence. Of course best-case scenario is no females and no fence.......

If they can use the plane again then that's double prizes......

 

[avbug]

Parachutes are not for girly men. When was the last time you used one?

I've had a fair few mechanical situations in flight, and suffice it to say, it does happen. Life is not a movie; know your systems and know your proceedures, and you stand the best chance of being successful in any given situation.

 

[minitour]

...electric flaps crappin' out?

The other day in the mighty 152 actually.

Just passing abeam the numbers on downwind, I start with the checklist. Carb heat, mixture rich, fuel valve on (duh), reduce power, slow to 85, flaps 10.....flaps 10....flaps....ah **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**it...oh well, continuing with the checklist...seatbelts, landing light, gear still there and the prop's turning so everything is good to go...

I wish I could have gotten them back up, but I think the motor just crapped out on me. Too bad they don't have a manual backup...like a hydraulic pump or something...

A slightly faster approach (final at 75) which was easily slowed up by cutting power about 100' from the threshold...squeeked it on around 500'-700' down the runway (nonprecision runway so I'm just guessing) and Tower let me roll to the end (which was nice, cuz I was parking down there)...not a real big issue in something as lightning fast as the SuperCessna 152...

like Avbug said, know your systems and your procedures...oh and stay ahead of the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** thing....it's a coffin with wings real quick if you get too far behind it...and don't ever panick...if you're in the plane by yourself or with a passenger, you've been trained properly to handle the situation so do it.

-mini

 

[nosehair]

...so before I go busting the checkride for using 10* of flaps (it'll be in a 172RG) for the power on stall demonstration, tell me again why it's wrong?

-mini

-mini, 9G, and anyone else who cares, you can't get all wrapped up on specific flap settings on checkrides.

Look at the Private and Commercial PTS under power on stalls.
Look at Item no. 3 under Objective in both of them:

"3) Establishes the takeoff or departure configuration."

Look at the references under stalls and you will see FAA-8083-3, (Airplane Flying Handbook) and the POH.

In the Airplane Flying Handbook, Chapter 5, page 5-7, second sentence, first paragraph, under Power-On Stalls: "Airplanes equipped with flaps and/or retractable gear should normally be in the take-off configuration; however, power-on stalls should also be practiced in a clean configuration (flasps and/or gear retracted) as in departure and normal climbs."

The examiner is supposed to call for the configuration and the student sets it up as prescribed in the POH for that specific aircraft's configuration for the type of take-off the examiner calls for, ie., normal, short-field, soft-field, whatever is in the POH.

Now,...having said that, I know that most schools and most examiners have a "way" they want to see it done,....and THAT becomes THE WAY in that area.

However, I hope you can see that the flight training should be stalls in all possible (not just probable, but POSSIBLE) configurations.

BTW, while we are in Chapter 5, Stalls, you will notice that Secondary Stalls, Accelerated Stalls, Cross-Control Stalls, and Elevator Trim Stalls are also a part of the training that should be done with Student Pilots. Not just Instructors.

There is a big confusion in the Training Industry about these Stalls.

These Stalls are listed in the Flight Instructor's PTS as Demonstration Stalls, while the Power-On and Power-Off Stalls are listed as Proficiency Stalls.

This sets up the Illusion that these Demonstration Stalls should only be demonstrated to students. But if you know and care anything about teaching, you know that an airplane has to be hand-flown to understand. Just like spins. or landings. or anything that you should know about in an airplane. it must be flown to understand.

The difference between the word "Proficiency" and "Demonstration" in this context is that the Power-On and Power-Off Stalls have to be done to a Proficiency level as described by the appropriate PTS for that cetificate or rating, and the Demonstration Stalls are "demonstrated to a level of satisfactory proficiency and safety as judged by the instructor."
I quoted that line from 61.87 (c)(2) which is the student pilot pre-solo requirement.

Now, before anybody flames me for my own interpretation of this, I'm really only about trying to insure that we train as best as we can by exposing the student to a variety of experiences, not just PTS maneuvers.

Avbug points out that a student should be able to cut the power over the field and glide to a safe landing. Because he should. But that isn't explicitly spelled out in 61.87. It just says: (e)(13)Approaches to a landing area with simulated engine malfuctions.

But that is a good way to execute this training. The 180, and the 360 overhead power off approaches described in Chapter 7 of the AFH is an excellent way of developing this skill for student pilots. Regardless of certificate or rating.

As instructors, and as student pilots (regardless of your certificate/rating), we should all be teaching and learning at least ALL of the skills in the Airplane Flying Handbook. The PTS is supposed to be a standardized sampling of those skills. Just because a cross-controlled stall isn't on the Privare PTS, don't you want to be skilled at knowing how that stall feels and how to recognize and recover? And don't even think about saying, "Well, I'll just concentrate on staying coordinated".

Don't you have to do slips? Don't you have to slip it every time you make a cross-wind landing?

 

[Propsync]

Easiest ways for low timers....

1. VFR into IMC (poor weather planning)
2. Night VFR into IMC (intentional or unintentional)
3. IMC or scud running (no planning)
4. Fuel exhaustion
5. Low base with a tailwind to final, with a good overshoot (stall/spin)
6. Check out NTSB.ORG learn from others misteaks. get it?

 

[Flightjock30]

When doing power on stalls USE THE RUDDER!!! If you do not the blue will be anything but up...just my two cents