Eagle Scope Arbitration

[void]

A few things.

I'm not taking sides on this, but it really isn't suprising that Eagle lost the arbitration. If AMR is good at anything it is probobly fighting lawsuits.

Contract carriers have been around for a long time, they are nothing new. ACA started in '89, Mesa in '82, Trans States in ' 82, Chautauqua in '73, Skywest in ' 72, and Mesaba in '44 (believe it or not.) It doesn't look like they are going to turn around and disappear any time soon.

I wouldn't be suprised to see a franchise type airline sometime in the futrure. An airline where everything is contracted out to different carriers, everything from long-haul international, down to 50-100 mile hops.

As far as Chautauqua getting MCO from Comair. Chautauqua is cheaper for the fact they are flying not just 50 seat EMB-145's, but 37 seat EMB-135's. It fits more into DAL's designs of phasing out turbo-props. Flying a 135 is seemingly cheeper than flying either the 40 or 50 seat CRJ. It also fits the markets better. The 135 can also get in and out of EYW with a full load of people, which both the CRJ-200 and the CRJ-700 cannot do.

Just my two cents.

 

[Skull-One]

(Yeah, man! Roy Fokker. Glad you caught the reference as some people think it means I am a skinhead or something! www.robotech-aod.com <-- My novel. Check it out sometime).


Okay, now... Back to the discussion...

Superior product. I stand by that claim. I think CHQ does as good a job as, if not better than, any regional operating today. I can darned sure say that we do better than any other contract carrier out there. Our numbers prove it day in and day out. We're cheaper than some, but our peformance doesn't suffer as a result. (Superior doesn't have to mean *the best* it can also mean darned GOOD or upper tier.)

Again, this is a market economy. Nobody owns the flying that is out there. If ASA/CMR had scope on the issue I'd concede the point, but they do not. If CHQ was such a poor operation we wouldn't have gotten the contract in the first place, nor would we be seeing our options exercised at such a precipitous rate. We got the hard way: offering a great product at a competitive price. Honestly, I don't see the wholly owned carriers complaining about, either. They're growing like gangbusters at CMR and doing a great job.

FWIW, we did not *take* MCO. It was offered to us. If anything, CMR *LOST* MCO. They wouldn't have been as profitable doing it and DAL doesn't want to pee money away for no reason, especially when CMR's assets are being utilized elsewhere. The CRJ won't do what the ERJ will do and the MCO operation is very runway-length intensive. The only way CMR could do it is to buy ERJs and they don't want them. The expense involved wouldn't be worth it for anyone but Embraer.

Again, we didn't do anything at anyone's expense. If anything, having CMR in MCO would have been at the CUSTOMER'S EXPENSE in terms of ticket prices.


No offense to my friends at COMAIR and ASA. We love you guys!

 

[FlyingDawg]

Delta buy Chautauqua? If you look at the IPO for Republic Holdings (Chautauquas parent) Delta positioned themselves to do just that. If they exercise that option they could put a big hurt on US Airways by moving aircraft to Delta Connection to compete against US Airways in the northeast. This would also secure certain routes in the northeast if US Air does go belly up.

Be careful what you say here it might happen.

 

[Patriot328]

(Yeah, man! Roy Fokker. Glad you caught the reference as some people think it means I am a skinhead or something! www.robotech-aod.com <-- My novel. Check it out sometime).

First off,

Robotech is by far the best cartoon/series/anime that's ever come across the airways. So there we have no discussion, other than which veritech is the best...


I do not believe CHQ offers a superior product, but I will concede that the offer the same product (getting people from point A to B) for less price. As far as the numbers, send the dork jets or CRJs down to Otown and they'd be doing the same. It's not a coincidence that out numbers improved dramatically since we left the hell hole (that I loved) called La Guardia.

I also believe the spirit of your statement that if comair and ASA wanted complete control of Delcon fly they'd negotiate for it, and since it's legally available, both your company and mine (and Skywest) can bid for it. I still stand by the statement that the contract carriers are hurting the "wholly owneds" by being able to underbid them (and even if they don't underbid them, DAL management can use contract carriers to undermind wholly owneds negotiating power).

My statements, of course, are taken from an outside point of view. Being a pilot for a "contract carrier" I do not want to see our contract nulled, but if it were, I would understand. The idea of codesharing is a bait and switch in the most basic form and should be outlawed. I would feel much better flying for Delta at $60/hr as a dojet captain than flying at ACA as a $60/hr dojet captain.


Of course, that being said, I'm off to check out your site... I absolutely love Robotech!!

Patriot

 

[resistance]

Death to AMR..... I say this because I work there and this reversal of a decision by the arbitrator is due to corporate greed. This company, AMR, has shown to it's own employees that it never cares about your future and the future of YOUR family. I hope they will soon file Chapter 11 and let the lawyers open the books and see how this company has raped, looted, and spit in the face of it's employees.

If you think it will never happen at your company YOUR WRONG!! I warn you at ASA and Comair this "problem" is slowly coming your way. The "problem" has already destroyed US Air Express system. This "problem" was attempted to killed by the pilot's of Eagle but apparently Management still has enough money to pay off the arbitrator.

Yesterday's decision by the arbitrator has shown that Management is not looking toward a future but a bottom line and I know for a fact that they will pay the price for this one.....

Don't Fly American...
Don't Fly Eagle....
Boycott AMR Corporation!

Now I know what the pilot's of Eastern felt when their flying was taken away from them by Frank Lorenzo to Continental.

 

[eaglefly]

Skull-1 will justify taking anyones flying anywhere as long as it benefits him. I've visited the TSA website now and then and have heard the same greedy self-centered rhetoric before.

Unfortunately true airline pilots will always have individuals like this in our midst - future management trainees masquarading as airline pilots.

 

[CRJ700 FO]

The pilots worst enemy is the pilot himself. As long as there are people willing to whore themselves out and do it cheaper, there will always be contract companies, ie. Mesa, TSA, CHQ, stealing flying from other carriers. ALPA tries to bring all pilots together to prevent that and it doesn't work. I know I worked for Eagle for way too long. I saw the conditions get worse and worse. It wasn't because the flying wasn't there, it was because some people are cheap. And when Eagle has to sign a 16 year contract to try to prevent the outsourcing of its flying and prevent conditions from getting worse, and it happens anyway, we didn't lose it, it was taken away. Eagle had scope language in its contract. Therefore when TWA was bought and became AA, the feed should have been Eagle. They said they didn't have the resources yet they sell airplanes and furlough pilots. Its just someone was willing to do it cheaper.
So to skull one, you guys don't offer a superior product. You offer a cheaper product. That is only superior in the eyes of the bean counters. Passengers look at a regional plane as a puddle jumper, they don't care whose flying it. And when a company like Freedom Air comes in and takes your job, don't start crying.
And to all my former co-workers at Eagle, I feel for you. I jumped ship while there were still some lifeboats.

 

[sidseal]

I also left eagle to get away from this crap and low and behold here comes sh#taqua again. They are like the f#@king plague.

 

[maddog805]

posted by Skull-One

Superior product. I stand by that claim. I think CHQ does as good a job as, if not better than, any regional operating today. I can darned sure say that we do better than any other contract carrier out there.

You CHQ guys put up good numbers for on-time departures and completion last month for Delta. As a matter of fact you TIED SkyWest's numbers. You forgot one thing though.......SkyWest has FOUR TIMES more departures for Delta than CHQ does.
Nice try though...

 

[Skull-One]

We're in the middle of starting up an operation. Give us some time. You'll see...

As for people "stealing" flying. Give me a break! This is a market economy. Short of some very strict language, nobody is stealing anything. I'll quote my major professor when I was working on my MBA as he summed it up quite eloquently:

"Unions seek to drive up wages by artificially restricting the supply of labor."

That's all there is to it. YOU CANNOT DEFY THE FORCES OF THE MARKET NO MATTER HOW STRONG YOUR CONTRACT. Call it stealing if you want. I call it "Market Forces." It sucks, but it's the way it is. If you try to defy the market you will be out of business. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

Ask Pan Am, United, USAirways, Braniff, and coming soon to a theater near you...AMERICAN.

If every RJ driver in the US made 100 bucks an hour then people would either drive or get into the bullet train business. SWA would sure see more business, too.

YOU CANNOT DEFY THE MARKET. Get it through your heads. Geeze...and I thought most pilots had at least a Bachelor's Degree. I must have been wrong on that one.