Eagle Pilots Want ALPA OUT!!

[DLSouthernjets]

Eaglefly-

Delta pilots got a crappy contract back in 1996.

Why? Because idiot pilots voted FOR it.

Who's fault? Our fault. We could blame ALPA national, but it wouldn't change things one iota.

YOU are the union.

 

[FlyinBrian]

It's true that the Eagle Pilots voted for the 16 year contract. They made that concession in exchange for scope languange to ensure that there would only be one Eagle providing all feed to AA. At least that's what the union told them. They also accepted a pay index system that they were lead to beleive would keep them at about 6% above the industry average.

The problem is that while we have to honor the no-strike clause, the company has not honored their end of the contract. Eagle does not enjoy above average pay, and their jobs are being outsouced to TSA and CHQ. Where is ALPA national? They were there convincing pilots to sign, but now that all the promises in the contract have been broken, they aren't lifing a finger. Eagle's MEC is trying to take on AMR. It's a David and Goliath situation without help from ALPA national. and Eagle's not getting a thing.

It wasn't until Eagle's MEC passed a resolution authorizing an assesment on the member ship to pay for legal representation if National refused to provide it that national finally threw some legal cash their way. It's pretty messed up that a union should assess its membership for somthing dues are supposed to cover.

So you have to understand Eagle's frustration with ALPA. Sure they voted for the 16 year contract. But that's because they were promised a lot in return. Those promises have all been broken, pilots are getting screwed, and the folks at National couldn't care less. Is dumping ALPA the right thing to do? I don't know. But the pilots are getting pretty desperate and they want things to change.

 

[surplus1]

Eaglefly-

Delta pilots got a crappy contract back in 1996.

Why? Because idiot pilots voted FOR it.

Who's fault? Our fault. We could blame ALPA national, but it wouldn't change things one iota.

Your statements are accurate but miss the point completely.

The Delta MEC and pilot group is "the" most powerful group within the ALPA. While UAL might be in a position to challenge that, no other airline in the ALPA even comes close.

If the Delta pilots want something from the ALPA that the rest of ALPA would prefer not to give, the DMEC then threatens to take its marbles (money) and play in its own sandbox. Result = it gets what it wants, when it wants. I'm not saying that's bad or good. Just that it's true.

There is NO comparison whatever between what the EGL MEC can do in the ALPA and what the DAL MEC can do.

When the DAL pilots negotiate or ratifiy a contract you are correct in saying it is "their responsibility". When the EGL pilots do the same it is as different as night and day.

If you don't know what happens behind the scenes I can excuse your statement. If you DO know, then your statement is diliberately misleading. I suspect you don't know.

There is a history to the EGL's 1997 contract. Those who know some of that history are obliged to take exception to what you've said. I can't recall the exact quote but , "you shouldn't judge another man until you've walked a mile in his moccasins".

I'm not an EGL pilot, I'm a Comair pilot, but I do have a dog in their struggle for I too am a "regional" pilot. Like it or not, we regional pilots are all in the same stew. Whatever affects one of us, affects us all. It is time that we recognize this, set aside our differences and join hands in defense of our union rights.

Personally, I don't believe that leaving the ALPA is the way to do this right now. I think we should first make a serious effort, within the union, to correct the problems we face.

While we do have some divergent interests, they are very small by comparison with out common interests. IMO, we need a solid coalition between ourselves that allows us to pursue our interests within the Association. That coalition should include the Canadian regionals.

The ALPA has been far more effective in dividing regional pilots and playing them against each other internally, than the management groups do externally. The union's internal structure is frequently "adjusted" in such a way that we are precluded from effective political power within the organization. Our individual voices are at best whispers, mostly unheard.

As a consequence, we must always do as we're told (and believe me we ARE told) and never as we prefer. While I do not believe that we should always "get our way", I can't subscribe to "never" getting our way either.

To date, regional pilot leaders have not been willing or wise enough (I'm not sure which), to understand the benefits of coalition. Perhaps one day soon, they will. I can always hope.

Of course I realize that mainline groups can also form a coalition of their own to counter that and restore the status quo. That is likely for the mainline groups often do that today. They have to find common ground if anything is to get done. Nevertheless, a true coalition of the regionals or preferably the "non-majors" would level the palying field considerably. Today's disparity is increasingly unworkable.

Would what I suggest be good for the union as a whole and not jut the "regional" members? I think the answer is yes. Why? = "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

Regards

 

[FlyinBrian]

Maybe we need "RALPA" with its own national organization. I think it is gettin to the point where major airline and regional airlines interests are too divergent to be represented by the same union.

 

[Anaconda]

don't forget to add coporate airlines to the list of carriers that now fly under "american connection". they always seem to be left off of the list for some reason...

 

[DLSouthernjets]

Surplus-

Brevity man.

If you can't make your point in a few sentences, perhaps you don't have one.

The internet isn't the place for a long,drawn out oscar acceptance speech.

 

[surplus1]

......and then Eagle goes on strike with no financial backing for their membership in form of strike pay or paying the lawyers and negotiators.

In Union-101, one learns (or should learn) that you can't "buy" a strike. If a union group makes the strike decision based on how much "strike pay" it will get, the strike is lost before it begins.

We don't "pay" for negotiators they volunteer. We incur "flight pay loss", which at our wage levels is manageable (if we don't have to also support a top heavy structure, much of which doesn't support us). Paying for one good attorney that represents you, is perhaps better than 3 attorneys all working for someone else.

The in-house union working with APA.. now there's a good one. You think by kissing APA's butt, they get you your 14 ERJ's back from TSA and relax their scope? Keep the jokes coming.

You are correct. Kissing the APA's butt or getting in bed with them will not help the Eagle pilots. Now that I've said that, I must ask you this. Will kissing the ALPA's butt get back the 14 ERJ's or relax the APA's scope? The answer to that appears to be self evident.

By coincidence, the APA's "scope agenda" is identical to the ALPA's "scope agenda". If that is EGL's problem, the APA or the ALPA = six of one, half-dozen of the other.

This one really cracks me up... "ALPA gave us 16 year contract." No bro, you gave it to yourself by voting for it. ALPA signed it because YOU said YES. Now you're pissed. I don't know, but it seems like to me that you reap what you sow..

With respect to that statement, the only thing I can think of to say is "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do (say)".

Nope, I don't work for Eagle, so nope, I don't know what the COMPLETE story is over there, but I can tell ya that dumping ALPA and going with a BRAND NEW in-house union is about as dumb as cutting off your head for having a headache.

You were right. You don't know the complete story over there. You should have stopped there and quit while you were ahead.

Based on your remarks, it appears you don't know ANY of the story. I happen to agree that leaving the ALPA may not be the best answer right now, but it is hardly the equivalent of cutting off your head.

The ALPA may sell itself as the panacea for every airline pilot's needs. That's good PR, but far from the truth.

ALPA is a great Association and has done many great things for airline pilots, most of which we seldom recognize. It is unquestionably the "right" union for the major airlines. However, the industry has changed and continues to change. The ALPA must change with it. So far, it has not. ALPA's efforts on behalf of the small carriers are less than stellar and in dire need of significant modification.

I believe the Association should fix itself internally. However, it must move in that direction NOW, not later. If the ALPA is unwilling or unable to change, there are other options and they are viable. That they are being considered by the Eagle pilots, is not a crime and not high treason.

Whenver a labor union, any labor union, is unwilling or unable to serve the interests of ALL of it's members, it has outlived its usefulness to those it is unable to serve.

Fly safe.

 

[surplus1]

Surplus-

Brevity man.

If you can't make your point in a few sentences, perhaps you don't have one.

The internet isn't the place for a long,drawn out oscar acceptance speech.

My apologies for not becoming a member of the sound bite set. I know its the modern way of proving that you have nothing to say. I don't subscribe.

What by the way was YOUR point? I missed it.

 

[DLSouthernjets]

First the earth cooled. Then the dinosaurs came. And then the Arabs, and they bought big Mercedes, but that's not important right now!

 

[burping_boy]

You missed a few steps, friend....

First, the Earth cooled. And then the dinosaurs came. But they got too big and fat, so they all died and turned into oil. And then the Arabs came. And they bough Mercedes Benzes. And then Prince Charles started wearing all of Lady Di's clothes. I couldn't believe it! He took her best summer dress out of the closet, put it on, and went to town...

LOL

 

[surplus1]

DLS,

You also forgot Moses, he came and he led the Israelites out of captivity and across the dessert ............. to the only d**ned place in the Middle East where there's NO oil.

What was your point again?

 

[Draginass]

American Connection!!?? Those are the companies that are complicent with AMR in violating AE scope clause and about to violate APA's ASM cap!!