Eagle pilots call your MEC Chairman...

[surplus1]

You're an idiot!

I would rather be an idiot than a thief.

 

[chickenpilot]

Go ahead implement the contract as is

AA717

as a mid level FO ( with no hope of upgrading in the foreseeable future) I say go ahead and implement suppW/Letter 3. It wont affect me much. I assume you realize the little part in there that say no Eagle FO may be furloughed as a result of AA pilots flowing back to Eagle. So when you downgrade our captains to FO we will just have a ton of FOs sitting at home getting base pay. 72 hours of pay might not be much but it will go a long way when I add in the part time job I will have time to pick up.
The problem FOs have toward all of this is we were never given a seat at the table, never get the benefit of the flow through, wont have the PIC required by AA when they start to hire someday down the road. Why should we care when we have been relegated to career FOs

 

[English]

AA717,


Eaglefly knows of what he writes. You are putting out incorrect info to pilots on this website.

 

[resistance]

To all Allied Pinheads Ass's out there:

Blow me!

As a 5th yr FO at Eagle I am sick and tried of being lied too and stabbed in the back from your "leadership". As for the letter 3/supplement W agreement I say let it stand as is because AMR will fined a way of f**king all of us and getting their way around all contracts. I will tell you APA guys and gals again...F**k you!
Allow me to explain my outrage....
I have been at AMR Eagle for 5 years and over those years I have learned allot (and still more to learn) but I know for the time we (Eagle ALPA) and APA tried to get together but your "leadership" has always screwed us and lied to us outright. So when you boys and girls execute the full letter 3/supplement W agreement stop and think of these few lines....

1. When you get your American Eagle ID you have entered a new world that is no longer "sheltered" by American Airlines and APA. You will be looked down on...isolated....questioned....and turned in for anything wrong you do.

2. The people who are your supervisors and check airmen are Eagle people and follow Eagle rules. Remember this is a small knit group of bias and bitter people who have many friends.

3. Finally you are on the bottom of life here and will always be. Go ahead and ask the "few" 15 flowback guys about their schedules and lives....They are either ready reserve or flying 20 days a month on reserve. You have no chance to ever see a line or a life and that is the goal of all the F.O.'s APA is screwing over!

No ScAAbs!!!

 

[amaineiac]

Well said. When and if these guys flowback, they are in for a shock.

I've flown with a few of the current "legit" flowbacks and they are a good bunch of guys. I wish them no ill will.....I almost feel sorry for them. However, when and if the new seat stealin' bastards flowback, I will go out of my way to make their lives hell.

I hope our MEC comes up with an LOA for 1-5 year captain rates of $15/hr for the jet.

 

[AA717driver]

I am getting my information from someone involved in the negotiations. Maybe he has a different view of the proceedings...maybe not.

I started this thread in an honest attempt to warn line pukes like myself of what might be rolling downhill towards them. I take it all back.

As far as the threats and name-calling, 400+ Eagle pilots gladly took the flowthrough to AA. That's great. I'm happy. But this agreement was signed with the potential for a downside for the Eagle people. Now the downside is upon you and NOW the agreement doesn't look so good.

resistance--You are a 5 year FO. When you grow up and have actually had a career in the airline business, then you can give me s***. Who the h*** guarnteed you a career? News flash! This whole thing is a crap shoot. No guarantees. If there were, I'd still be a MD80 CA at TWA, getting holidays off and getting the vacation I wanted. Too bad for me. Too bad for EAL, PAA, Midway(both), etc. We all know where 'sympathy's' position is in the dictionary...

Is this fair? Probably not. It's not fair that 70% of the TWA pilots acquired by AA will lose their jobs. **** happens. Do I wish this flowback issue was not happening? Of course. Will it happen? Who knows.

eaglefly--Since you are in the know, ask Roland Wilder what's going on.TC

 

[English]

Why, when there is disagreement on this board, do people turn downright rude?

 

[eaglefly]

The "agreement" IS NOT the agreement.

The APA unilaterally devised a NEW Suppliment W that disregards the language (and in effect, attempts to nullify) in Eagle's letter 3.

Supplimet W/Letter 3 CAN ONLY BE CHANGED WITH THE CONCURRANCE OF ALL 4 PARTIES THROUGH NEGOTIATION.

The "better deal" you refer to in your initial post was actually the current AA TA. Darrah and White threated to use the "one-item change" in the their TA to "impliment Letter 3, as written".

Letter 3 has NO PROVISIONS FOR THE ABILITY OF FLOWBACKS TO CLAIM NEW VACANCIES.

Flowbacks can only displace Jet captains that are junior to them on the AA list. Those displaced Eagle captains can AND SHOULD then have the ability to exercise both their AA seniority and Eagle seniority to go back to RJ Captain via filling of vacancy BEFORE a junior AA pilot can get to it.

The APA now wants the ability to wrap their arms around the checkerboard and sweep it clean, taking ALL the checkers.

They expect Eagle ALPA to keep their mouth shut.

If they can unilaterally change the rules and disregard Eagle ALPA and their pilots rights now, what's to stop new changes in the future ?

Cancel flow-through numbers of Eagle pilot's when it's time to flow ?

Declare the flowback ability of mainline pilots to last INDEFINATELY ?

Roland Wilder ?

Yeah, he's a real mover and shaker.

I don't need to ask him anything to "know what's going on".

 

[fxbat]

AA717driver
Current Position:" Time's up, ace. Back to the right seat you go!"

Total Time: 10,000

Posts: 42


What exactly does that mean? It sure doesn’t sound like “I started this thread in an honest attempt to warn line pukes like myself of what might be rolling downhill towards them”.
b

 

[TWA Dude]

AA717driver
Current Position:" Time's up, ace. Back to the right seat you go!"

What exactly does that mean?

All it means is that he's a former TWA captain being displaced to AA FO. He's not referring to anybody else.

All I know is that if the Eagle MEC and APA BOD are calling each other liars then we all lose. They need to get together and work it out. Nothing's actually happened yet so there's plenty of time.

 

[superatr]

>>>The MEC didn't bother to show the other day--they sent their lawyers(including Roland Wilder who worked with the TWA MEC--better watch out!). <<<

>>>eaglefly--Since you are in the know, ask Roland Wilder what's going on.TC<<<

Hey AA717! Your source is wrong. Roland Wilder does not work on the Eagle property. Care to take another guess?

 

[resistance]

Hey AA717,

First off if you think I need to "grow up" I assure you that my age and attitude have nothing to do with making it in this business. Yes I am a five year F/O at a MAJOR airline and I do see Eagle as my final destination. As for your bankrupt, defunct TWA I could careless since I was extremely disgruntled when Carty announced that AMR would pick up your fecal remains of TWA.

Second...I stand by my words. As for the people on this board who don't understand the frustration of all Eagle pilots I can't fit all the hostilities we face everyday from American pilots, AMR management, and finally TWA LLC/American Connection on this post. The people at American Eagle have been pushed into a corner for so many years that we only see one way out. The theory of poking the snake with a stick one day he will strike back at you basically sums up our attitudes. We (Eagle pilots) don't really give a f**k anymore.

American Eagle pilots and fellow Eagle employees have tried peacefully for so many years to work with APA and other unions (Remember One Airline/ Unity march) to get a true equitable agreement together only to get kicked in the balls and spat on. Well I guess the straw finally broke the camels back. The damage is done and as for you APA and TWA guys who think we can be one happy family again you are sadly misguided.

Finally I wish to apologize to all other pilots reading these hostilities, however if you only knew the lies, payoffs, and back door deals that have caused AE pilots financial and emotional hardship over the years by management and APA you would know why we are bitter and hostile.

No ScAAbs!

 

[AA717driver]

resistance--Sorry, I got my ALPA lawyers confused, it's David Holtzman.

As for your hostility, I understand. As long as there has been AE, you have been getting the short end of the stick. From Nashville Eagle, whose pilots were told they would get AA numbers(fat chance), to the flowback which gives you only seniority over the flowbacks, you've been hosed.

You completely missed the intent of my first post--it wasn't a threat or even a malicious warning. I was trying to say look out from someone who has been blindsided a few times.

Believe me, if I could take back this merger, I would. The lives of the TWA people have pretty much been miserable since this happened. We would gladly take our chances in the post 9/11 world.

To the people from other airlines reading these posts, this is life at AA. You can't trust anyone--management, other unions--even fellow pilots. It's sad.

Good luck.TC