Duty Times

[Boilermaker]

Does anyone know what the FAA deems the start of duty time when you are on an overnight??? For instance, if you have to check out of your hotel at noon but your flight does not leave until 8pm, did your duty start at noon or something like 7pm? We don't run into this often but it has become a sticky point and I want to know the correct legal interpretation.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

your company wont keep you in a hotel for a half day?

What do you do, hang out at the FBO?

From my past (and foggy) rememberance of 135, duty times started anhour before scheduled departure (haha)...they dont care where you rest....

Im just dont see why you wouldnt stay in the hotel until 6pm or so..

.

 

[Boilermaker]

Duty Time

I know this isn't the correct forum but I figure you guys run into this alot. I work for a 135 company and I have a question about duty time. When you are overnight, what is the legal answer as to when your duty time starts the next day? For instance, if you have to check out at noon but your flight leaves at 8pm, when does the FAA say your duty time starts??? Thanks in advance for the input.

 

[FRLWD]

When I worked for a 135 company, I was told by our POI that duty starts an hour before your scheduled departure or if you've been placed on stand-by. According to her it doesn't matter when you check out of the hotel, as long as you're not on stand-by.

 

[need2fly]

Dependes on why you are checking out of the hotel. Does thecompany want you available to fly earlier if the pax show up? Ifso then duty starts at noon-ish. If they are just cheap and won'tpay the day rate, then your duty starts at your required show time andit is time to start looking for a better company to work for.

n2f

 

[Flying Illini]

That's pretty much how it goes for us. But if we have a flight that leaves at 8pm, we keep the hotel until 5 or 6 pm, then head to the airport to get things ready. When we arrive at the airport, our duty time starts. Staying in a hotel as long as you can (they don't care if we get charged an extra day) is just like getting a day room. Like today, I goCMI-MDW-MSN-MDW and spend the night there, then don't leave until 6pm the next evening, so we will keep our hotel rooms and rest as long as possible.

 

[Otter]

could be urban legend...but......

I believe there is pretty straight forward case law from the FAA on this. And while you, might not be "on duty", if you are not in " suitable rest conditions" you are not in rest.I think the interp came due to the operators who claimed pilots in sleep rooms in the FBO were "in rest."

 

[mavrck]

Ya, unfortunately the duty time would start when you would have to be at the airport doing your function as pilot and doing pilot duties. Ie weather, preflight, etc.

Getting kicked outta the hotel early and you have no choice but go back to the FBO doesnt count on the duty time. But, im sure the fatigue time starts the moment you get to the FBO and have to sit in a straight back metal chair for hours on end waiting til 8pm.

I too run into this problem alot, unfortunately. But there isnt too much we can do about it. Ops says that just because you arent in the hotel doesnt mean you are resting. Or even when you ARE in the hotel you arent actually FORCED to sleep for your rest. You can do whatever you want during rest like ski, paint, drink (not for too long though)

Just another way for our cheap bosses to save a buck or two.

 

[guido411]

Isn't it obvious? Duty time starts IMMEDIATELY following your 10th hour after duty off, which is PRECISELY when the phone will ring for your days' trip changes!

 

[leardawg]

When I worked for a 135 company, I was told by our POI that duty starts an hour before your scheduled departure or if you've been placed on stand-by. According to her it doesn't matter when you check out of the hotel, as long as you're not on stand-by.

The key point here is that it usually comes down to what your POI says is acceptable. You can ask the same question at 10 different FSDOs, and get 10 different opinions. Duty/rest policy should be spelled out in your company's ops manual after being vetted with your POI.