Duty Times and Rest Rules

[DAS at 10/250]

I am wondering if any of you have written or unwritten duty time/rest rule policies. I turned down a requested fourth leg today because it would have put us at around 16 hours of duty time. It wasn't an issue with management but I was just curious how the rest of you limit your duty times and I am wanting to compare what is out there.

DAS

 

[Flying Illini]

If it's a 135 flight, it's limited for us.
For pt. 91, it's up to us. We rarely have a duty day run up to or over 14 hrs, but when it occassionally does, we are aware of it ahead of time so we can try and get some extra sleep and prep ourselves for it. It's also a big part of the crew briefing. If fatigue begins to become a real issue, either crew member has the power to shut it down. Usually those long days aren't spent flying all day and you can sometimes catch an hour nap in there. But again, if fatigue begins to become an issue or you don't feel sharp or up to dealing with whatever mother nature is looking to throw at you on that last leg, you can shut it down.
Kudos to you for declining in the name of safety.

 

[leardawg]

There are many very differing opinions on this matter, but it all boils down to this:

Part 135: go by

1. FAR 135 duty/rest limitations.

2. FAA POI-approved or accepted Ops Manual SOPs concerning the exceeding of 10 hours flying/14 hours duty. (Despite what anyone else says, this is common practice and varies with FSDOs and POIs, for good or bad depending on your viewpoint).

3. Crew judgement concerning fatigue, which is the final say in this matter. (If your employer threatens your employment status over #3, aggressively seek new employment).

Part 91: it's up to you (unless the company has a specific policy), but make sure the rule on Careless/Reckless operation doesn't come back to bite you in the a**. If you have an accident or incident during your 20th duty hour, you're toast!

In any case, your judgement and common sense should be the ultimate arbiter. Any employer who would fire you for excercising good judgement is doing you a favor. Any potential employer who would hold that against you should be avoided like the plague.

 

[NoPax]

Leardawg is right.

The rest/duty time requirements are written in the Operations Specifications, and signed off by our POI. In them it states under which operations we are approved for ie commuter NA, and the specific paragraph of 135 that our rest/duty times can be found.

 

[Yesiflyhogs]

Bravo again on turning down the trip. Lots of 91 ops have the policy of allowing either crewmember to scuttle the trip based on fatigue. I for one don't think that is enough - it is too easy to shame the other pilot into going (especially new pilots). We call it off after 14 hrs period. Also, we preach a minimum of 10 hours from shutdown to launching again. That has been a bigger issue for our department (i.e. avoiding the scenario where you get in at midnight after a 4 hour duty day and then go wheels up by 6am).

 

[2EASYPilot]

We are Part 91...however our ops manual specifies max of 14 hours duty day that can be extended to 16 with a six hour rest period in between. Also, minimum of 10 hour between touchdown and takeoff on ron's. For international ops it gets a bit more complicated when circadian windows, third crewmember, etc., come into play. We also have a limitation on the number of legs and flight time per duty period. While the basics are the same for most Part 91/NBAA members there seems to be slight variations to fit individual operations.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Thanks for the input. Our management hasn't given us any grief on rejecting trips yet but I was just wondering what other operators were doing and to have something to point to if it did ever become an issue. The 10 hours between shutdown and startup seems to work real well.

Most of the time this airplane is flown single pilot by me but when any of the company owners or the president of the board is on board they want a two pilot op. The second guy really helps on the long days and they have already given me the green light on hiring a second guy anytime I feel necessary due to WX or long days.

Thanks for the input troops and fly safe.

DAS