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Dumb question

ERJFO

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ATC says "XYZ123 maintain 310 knots in the descent" chart says "cross XXX at 250 KIAS" I've always be under the impression you fly the speed ATC assigned until it's rescinded or told to cross the fix at the published speed. Guy I worked with last week disagreed with me, said you always fly what is charted - who is right?
 

Flex-ible

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I think you slow to 250. Think of it this way: if the clearance is to descent to 9,000 and hold 310 in the descent, you're going to slow to 250 passing 10,000 feet right?

Same thing
 

ERJFO

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I think you slow to 250. Think of it this way: if the clearance is to descent to 9,000 and hold 310 in the descent, you're going to slow to 250 passing 10,000 feet right?

Same thing

It's not the same thing if we're crossing the fix at 12,000...
 

ProFracPilot

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ATC says "XYZ123 maintain 310 knots in the descent" chart says "cross XXX at 250 KIAS" I've always be under the impression you fly the speed ATC assigned until it's rescinded or told to cross the fix at the published speed. Guy I worked with last week disagreed with me, said you always fly what is charted - who is right?

The safe answer is to maintain 310 KIAS as assigned until you need to slow to reach the fix at the charted speed. That said, why not ask the ATC for clarification? Something simple like "confirm you want us back to 250 at XXXX", or "confirm NO speed restriction at XXXX?"
 

o2bflyn

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I agree with ProFrac. The easiest and safest thing to do is ask ATC...."Do you still want us at 250 crossing XYZ intersection?"
 

Flyin2low

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The speed restrictions are usually charted as EXPECTED speeds so you can go 310 until descending below 10,000 where you have to slow to below 250. And no, ATC cannot assign more than 250 for civilian aircraft under 10,000'.
 

ERJFO

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We ask ATC 100% of the time. I'm looking for "what the regulations say" not what to do.
 

five-alive

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If the controller wants you to cross a fix at charted speed, he would say "Maintain 300 in descent, cross XXX at published speed", otherwise maintain the speed no matter what.
 

aa73

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Come on guys, this is not rocket science.

If a fix says "CROSS "XXXXX" at 250", it means exactly what it says. I.e. you maintain 310 until you can slow so as to cross the fix at 250. Otherwise, ATC will tell you, "disregard speed restriction at XXXXX, maintain 310 until further advised" or something like that.

If a fix says, "EXPECT TO CROSS XXXXX at 250" then you would maintain 310 until the controller tells you to slow.

Bottom line, the controller HAS to amend the clearance if he wants you to do something other than what's charted. End of story.

And of course, as always, clear it up if you are unsure.
 

stingray

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If the controller wants you to cross a fix at charted speed, he would say "Maintain 300 in descent, cross XXX at published speed", otherwise maintain the speed no matter what.

I agree with this, once the controller gives you instructions to do something like maintain 300 310 or whatever thats what counts. That being said, if your ever unsure of anything always ask, God knows I've asked many times for clarification on various instructions!!!!!!!!!
 

Mike man

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...you're going to slow to 250 passing 10,000 feet right?

And no, ATC cannot assign more than 250 for civilian aircraft under 10,000'.

Two points..."you're going to slow to 250 passing 10,000 feet right?" not necessarily, if you are more than 12 miles off shore you are free to go as fast as you want until 12 miles, ATC in S. Florida and San Juan expect you to go fast until you get to the 12 miles or they assign as speed. They regularly get quite upset with folks who slow down at 10,000 and will give the slower-downer a vector off course (and maybe chew him out a bit).

Point two..."ATC cannot assign more than 250 for civilian aircraft under 10,000'." See above.^^^
 

Lrjtcaptain

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I've said it before and I'll say it again. ASK ASK ASK! I don't care if someone doesn't understand my instructions. I'll clarify them all day long such as no one deviates from them.
 

LJ45

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Two points..."you're going to slow to 250 passing 10,000 feet right?" not necessarily, if you are more than 12 miles off shore you are free to go as fast as you want until 12 miles, ATC in S. Florida and San Juan expect you to go fast until you get to the 12 miles or they assign as speed. They regularly get quite upset with folks who slow down at 10,000 and will give the slower-downer a vector off course (and maybe chew him out a bit).

Point two..."ATC cannot assign more than 250 for civilian aircraft under 10,000'." See above.^^^

I slow down below 10,000 for safety...birds and VFR traffic. I'll take the vector and stick with standard ops in international waters, thank you.
 

Stifler's Mom

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We received a memo from the company (ASA) about the arrivals into ATL, and were told to comply with ALL charted speed restrictions on the arrivals unless ATC says otherwise.

ATL ATC for awhile even had printed on the Arrival ATIS a note to comply with all charted speeds. It is not there anymore, but it had been for a good 3 months or so.

I just figured ATC was tired of having every single a/c what speed they wanted on the arrival, so they tagged ATIS with a note for everyone.

Where's ATLPilot?

BTW, great question. I've had this discussion before, and as we can see here, there are contradicting opinions on this one.
 
Last edited:

AKAAB

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FYI - JetBlue SOP is 250 max below 10,000 everywhere we operate - regardless of whether you are offshore or not. Reportedly, this is to comply with the coming harmonization with ICAO rules and to enhance safety (as mentioned above). Miami Center and the local Approaches have been briefed on this numerous times, but they still try to get us to fly fast below 10,000.

Do I agree with this policy. No.
Do I comply with this policy. Absolutely.
 

jman90

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ATC says "XYZ123 maintain 310 knots in the descent" chart says "cross XXX at 250 KIAS" I've always be under the impression you fly the speed ATC assigned until it's rescinded or told to cross the fix at the published speed. Guy I worked with last week disagreed with me, said you always fly what is charted - who is right?

Above 10000' maintain 310kts but slow to 250kts prior to crossing XXX, (hard restriction in this circumstance). If it says expect at 250kts, continue 310kts until verbally given the restriction. (AIM 5-4-1)
 
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