Dual Received in King Air 350

[JAFI]

If the PIC had a restriction on his/her BE300/350 type rating "second in command required" you could log SIC because a SIC is FAR required. As far as recieving "Duel" for your ATP, unless you are in a 135/121 operation (and the Captain mostly never signs a log book) you need a CFI ME to sign your log book and record the "Instruction".
JAFI

 

[dogg]

The university I attend has a King Air 350 that DOES NOT require an SIC EXCEPT for insurance purposes. We have an internal "internship" that lets students sit right seat in it. The insurance company requires that the person in the right seat go though 61.55 training. And our university has put together a sylllabus to cover everything.

I understand I can't log it as SIC b/c as far as the FAA is concerned its a single pilot plane. What will it look like when I go to interivew (freight or regional) and have 60-100 hours of dual received (both PICs are MEIs). Would it help if I logged some ground training in the back of my log book?

I have done some research and this has been brought up on this board for smaller King Airs. With a couple small mods our King Air could require an SIC (as most of you know).

Any help would be appreciated.

I think that you are making to big a deal out of it. Log it just the way you would log time in any other trainer. At you experience level it will not get you hired over another guy. Hopefully it is mostly T/O and landing and V1 cuts as that would be worth something. If it is just seat warming, than it will come across as more of a novelty than anything else. I would not make a big deal out of it on a resume for now. You are probably going to be instructing and then hauling trash in a single for a couple a years anyway. Probably was fun. Hope you did not have to foot the bill for that beast..........

 

[paulsalem]

I'm not really worried, thanks for the input from everybody but Maverick. I think I will learn a lot from it. I will get to fly dead legs, not sure about pax legs, but still multi, turbine, and CRM experience.

No we don't have to foot the bill. However per the university's insurance the plane cannot fly pax without someone who has gone though 61.55 training sitting in the right seat. So without me, or someone else, they can't go. So I think I should get paid, but I guess there are people willing to do it for free (me included) so they don't have to worry about it.

Thanks again to everyone,

Paul

 

[A Squared]

If a sic is required by (ops manual) or (insurance), and you meet 61.55. log it

UHhhh, no, not true, the SIC has to be required by *the regulations*. Read 61.51

§61.51 Pilot logbooks.

(f) Logging second-in-command flight time. A person may log second-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person:


(1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command requirements of §61.55 of this part, and occupies a crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot by the aircraft's type certificate; or (2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or *the regulations* under which the flight is being conducted.

An insurance policy is not "the regulations". An Operations manual is not the regulations. An ops manual is essentially a company policy manual which has been reviewed by the FAA. Operations Specifications are regulatory, the Operations Manual is not. Regardless, the operation in question is a University which has neither Operations Specifications, nor an Operations Manual.

However per the university's insurance the plane cannot fly pax without someone who has gone though 61.55 training sitting in the right seat.

Completely irrelevant, see above

 

[paulsalem]

I know I can't log SIC (see my first post).

Per INSURANCE, the plane cannot fly pax w/o a guy in the right seat, or they would not receive any compensation in the event of a claim.

Thanks though

 

[A Squared]

I know I can't log SIC (see my first post).

Per INSURANCE, the plane cannot fly pax w/o a guy in the right seat, or they would not receive any compensation in the event of a claim.

Thanks though

Yeah, after I posted, I re-read your first post and saw that you had a good handle on that, sorry. Sometimes in a long thread you lose track of exactly who said what. However do I think it was worth addressing tathepilot's comments, as it's pretty clear that he/she has a pretty serious lack of understanding of the regulations.

 

[Art Vandalay]

I know I can't log SIC (see my first post).

Per INSURANCE, the plane cannot fly pax w/o a guy in the right seat, or they would not receive any compensation in the event of a claim.

Thanks though

I used to fly for the school in question when we had the B200, C90, and PA31. If it were me, I would not log much of the 350 time. You cannot act as PIC, and having all of your mulit-time as instruction looks suspect. Too bad they got rid of the B200, because with a little training and emergency descent, you would have been able to log AND act as PIC of that bird and the others.

JH will tell you to log all of it, but I wouldn't do it. You will probably get a different opinion from NL. Good luck, and PM me for more info. I could tell you a lot of stories about the flying we did "at the other end."

Art V.

 

[idratherfly4283]

Topgun-mav, you are an idiot.

 

[350DRIVER]

i have dual in a king air 90. the 350 is fore girls. the 90 is much faster and has more diddicult systems.
if you ever want to make it to the jets you will have to make a step up.

maverick

Priceless...

 

[psysicx]

Is it ever possible to log sic time in a king air.How do fractional and charter companies do it?

 

[paulsalem]

Yea, some king airs (350s) are type certificated for a 2 person crew.

 

[xdashdriver]

All models of Kingair (and the Beech 1900) are Type Certificated for One Pilot. The only time SIC can be logged in a Kingair is for the type of operation. IFR Passenger carrying operations under Part 135 would be the most common example. In order to log SIC in such a manner, you would need to be trained and checked in accordance with the operating company's approved training program for that aircraft. That is how "charter" companies do it. How "fractional" companies do it, I do not know.


Ray

 

[paulsalem]

If we put in wing lockers, or 2 more seats, then it would require an SIC per FAA regs.

 

[xdashdriver]

That an STC?

 

[A Squared]

Is it ever possible to log sic time in a king air.How do fractional and charter companies do it?

THe charter companies do it the way raysalmon described.

The fractionals are subject ot part 91, subpart K, which was established in Sept 03, and my understanding is that Subpart K requires an SIC (although I can't seem to find the requirement) Prior to the establishment of Subpart K, any Fractional SIC logging SIC time in a king air 90, 200, and in most cases a 300/350, was logging bogus flight time. Any non-fractional corporate SIC logging SIC time in a king air 90, 200, and in most cases, 300/350 is logging bogus flight time. If some inspector someday felt like making an issue of the bogus time, the pilot would have very little defense against a violation.