drunk united Pilot

[Whataburger]

However, I believe the coworker could have told the pilot it seemed he'd been drinking. The pilot could have called in sick, sat in a London hotel thinking about not drinking so much next time, and his career/life spared. Sometimes teammates step on their d!cks. Do you want to punish or help them?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Amish must be a defense attorney. Nobody actually does anything WRONG, they are just misunderstood.

Au contraire.

This guy was certainly not fit for flight according to his BAL. I'm not defending his actions at all. Although he clearly needs help if he can't abstain or adhere to bottle to throttle on the flight deck. His addiction finally cost him his job.

My point was to counter those who state he's weak and to 'pull his bootstraps up." There's more to it than mere autonomous will power. The problem is much deeper than carrying a bottle to your lips and drinking. To those who've reached such a stage, the best analogy I can give is akin to trying to resist some insatiable urge such as having to pee or not looking at a pair of natural DD cups. It's harder to resist for some and their will power can't fairly or acccurately be compared to those who lack such addictive traits.


Remember folks....

Drugs and alcohol hijack your brain. The chemical properties begin to influence your physical state (at this stage, your body has learned to compensate with the substance and now requires it to function normally) which leads to psychological manipulation in the form of actions. Actions such as rationalizing usage and behavior. Basically, your mind listens to your body. Your mind is the cohort and henchman of your body. If your body wants something (drugs, alcohol, sex - i.e., rape), it will inform your mind and your mind will create rational reasoning to execute these desires. Feelings are fleeting. Your mind and body are essentially connected through a network of neural connections which send signals to your mind to facilitate action. The drug addicts body requires the chemicals and so he now must find the drug. If one is wealthy, not a problem. If not, crime ensues. The body needs the substance so the mind convinces the person that certain actions are justified and carries out whatever is required to procure their fix.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

It is estimated that 70% of diabetes is attributed to obestiy. Obesity is due to behavior, as is alcoholism.

Type II is generally brought on by obesity - but NOT always. Type I is with you from birth.

Society has coined the term "disease" for alcoholism, obesity, drug addiction, etc. They are not diseases, they are behaviors.

They are behaviors brought on by the disease. Different.

Multiple sclerosis = disease
Gambling = behavior
Gambling addiction = weakness

malaria = disease
smoking = behavior
addiction to nicotene = weakness

So would you say a serial rapist has a sex "disease", or a behavioral disorder?

.......

 

[RJidiot]

Not to hijack the thread, but what was the final outcome of the SW pilot whom when accused of being inebriated, went to the mens room to change out of his uniform?

 

[no1pilot2000]

Relax folks

I meant no harm in my last comments. Some people on this forum are either joking around or too serious.

 

[densoo]

However, I believe the coworker could have told the pilot it seemed he'd been drinking. The pilot could have called in sick, sat in a London hotel thinking about not drinking so much next time, and his career/life spared. Sometimes teammates step on their d!cks. Do you want to punish or help them?

Maybe they did talk to him--and he refused to listen. Left them no choice.

 

[waka]

Many US pilots are not aware of the UK’s lower limits. They have a few cold ones thinking they are OK. Now combine that lack of knowledge with the time zone change and we have a receipt for disaster. The same strategy that works for pilots laying over in the US will not work in the UK.

Time zone change? Are you kidding? I believe that most pilots, especially one that flies internationally, has a grasp of the concept of time zones. Time zones are covered on the private pilot written exam.

"receipt for disaster" I'm not going to even ask about this metaphor.

Be careful out there. We need to get the word out for US pilots flying into the UK. This is the third pilot of a major carrier busted this year flying out of Heathrow.

AA767AV8TOR

I congratulate the security at Heathrow for being on their game. I hope they catch all drunk pilots.....half of our limit or not.

 

[waka]

How drunk?

There are so many levels of drunk.

Irrelevant. Either he's drunk or he isn't.

The pitch by Bavarian Chef: 70mph sarcasm.

Flightdawg at bat: Swings and misses!

 

[pdub20s]

Part 121.151 clearly states "put down the bottle to grab the throttle"

Come on guys..you cant tell me ya'll let this one pass???:laugh:

 

[PurpleInMEM]

Maybe they did talk to him--and he refused to listen. Left them no choice.

Well one of the other pilots could have called in sick and and the flight wouldn't have moved either. Then they could have called the union's HIMS rep and taken that route. Instead the crewmember involved the authorities, in country known for its kangaroo courts.

If the guy exceeded the arbitrary BAC limit established by the government then he is guilty and will be subject to their interpretation of a justice system. I just think there were other ways of keeping the flight on the ground, letting this guy dry out, and getting him help if he wants it.

I'm sure most of you just want blood. Typical.

"It is cheering to see the rats are still around..." - Eric Hoffer

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Simply put if and when you find yourself in the situation, call your ALPA HIMS reps, they are here to help you.

We will be having some substantial improvements in the DPAC program shortly.

 

[Flightdawg]

However, I believe the coworker could have told the pilot it seemed he'd been drinking. The pilot could have called in sick, sat in a London hotel thinking about not drinking so much next time, and his career/life spared. Sometimes teammates step on their d!cks. Do you want to punish or help them?

While agree about helping, how do we know they didn't? It's the classic interview question brought to life. What do you do when the Captain appears to be under the influence?

OR the Captain was just a big dick and this was an opportunity for the entire crew to burn him. Who knows?

Either way, it would be a perversion of justice for a drunk Captain to blame the crew for turning him in without confronting him about it first. The crew weren't the ones drinking booze to the point of inebriation.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Let's not forget that this guy chose to come to work drunk. It does not matter if the crew tried to help him or not. This was his doing. Most of us will go out of our way to help a crew member, but in the end they are responsible for their own actions.

 

[UALRATT]

I'm sure most of you urging on the hangman had at least a half a glass of brew on a layover... Do you really know when you're ready to huff less that 0.02 on the meter? http://www.thestreet.com/story/1062...s-pond.html?cm_ven=MSNH&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

 

[imacdog]

Half a brew, sure. Will that half brew be in my system after I stop 12 freaking hours before duty? Um, NO.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I'm sure most of you urging on the hangman had at least a half a glass of brew on a layover... Do you really know when you're ready to huff less that 0.02 on the meter? http://www.thestreet.com/story/1062...s-pond.html?cm_ven=MSNH&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

There's an app for that!

 

[UALRATT]

Half a brew, sure. Will that half brew be in my system after I stop 12 freaking hours before duty? Um, NO.

THe question was "Do you really know when you're ready to huff less that 0.02 on the meter"

 

[Flightdawg]

Do you really know when you're ready to huff less that 0.02 on the meter?

Yes. http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org/ 6.5 beers at 8 hours and 170 lbs.

To blow a 0.02 with "half a glass of brew", he must have chugged it on the way to the airport.

Ask yourself if this is how you would react if it was your family in the back as you waved good-bye to them knowing the pilot(s) smelled like a brewery.

 

[saabservant]

If that's the case then why are all you professionals willing to undercut the standards of the next guy or company and race to the bottom?

Management beat the pilots by out smarting the pilots who thought they were so smart they could beat the system attacking each other. Professionals show high levels of integrity and ethics. Pilots are broke, drunk, divorced, womanizing, selfish, egoist, leaches, who need more attention. Management knows how to play the pilots like a fiddle.

Not the whole picture, but true nonetheless, and sad.

---an outsourced furloughed sucker for "living the dream"

 

[imacdog]

THe question was "Do you really know when you're ready to huff less that 0.02 on the meter"

Yes. If it was a question of having one or two beers at night, then blowing over the limit in the morning, we'd be seeing a lot more of these arrests wouldn't we?

 

[UALRATT]

Yes. If it was a question of having one or two beers at night, then blowing over the limit in the morning, we'd be seeing a lot more of these arrests wouldn't we?

Sure, that possibility certainly exists if we really had to blow before we go... Assuming you're below the 0.02 because...is only as good as if you don't get caught.

 

[Flightdawg]

Sure, that possibility certainly exists if we really had to blow before we go... Assuming you're below the 0.02 because...is only as good as if you don't get caught.

Seriously, anyone stupid enough to drink so much it jeopardizes their job needs to be caught. No sympathy from me.

To blow a 0.2, an average sized man would have to chug a six pack 8 hours prior to flying. A couple of beers won't do it.

http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org/

 

[Shrek]

Seriously, anyone stupid enough to drink so much it jeopardizes their job needs to be caught. No sympathy from me.

To blow a 0.2, an average sized man would have to chug a six pack 8 hours prior to flying. A couple of beers won't do it.

http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org/

It's not .2 - it is .02 - roughly half a glass of beer.

 

[Mamma]

It's not .2 - it is .02 - roughly half a glass of beer.

..........chugged on the way to the airport. He meant .02.

 

[imacdog]

It's not .2 - it is .02 - roughly half a glass of beer.

Is the whole concept of "time" not getting through?

 

[Flightdawg]

..........chugged on the way to the airport. He meant .02.

Correct. Thanks.

Is the whole concept of "time" not getting through?

Maybe some don't want it to get through.

I'll admit to have drunk with the best of them, but it mystifies me why someone would toss their career away when they can simply call in sick if they had too much the night before.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Correct. Thanks.

Maybe some don't want it to get through.

I'll admit to have drunk with the best of them, but it mystifies me why someone would toss their career away when they can simply call in sick if they had too much the night before.

Success breeds success.... until it catches up with ya.

 

[MILPILOT17]

Correct. Thanks.

Maybe some don't want it to get through.

I'll admit to have drunk with the best of them, but it mystifies me why someone would toss their career away when they can simply call in sick if they had too much the night before.

To call in sick would require a brain in order to formulate that thought; obviously this guy doesn't have a brain, thus he was unable to call in sick? He's an IDIOT, and that's coming from someone that has consumed "mass quantities" with the best of them! It's really simple, know when to stop or get ready to burn some sick time.

 

[say again]

Ok, so maybe he was an alcoholic who couldn't control his urge to drink. He also must be an idiot for showing up to work under the influence. That's just plain stupidity. There is no excuse for it, though many would like to rationalize his poor decision making skills.

 

[CaptJax]

UA Pilot Pleads Guilty

Associated Press
United pilot charged with being over alcohol limit

Tuesday, January 5, 2010

(01-05) 06:17 PST LONDON, United Kingdom (AP) --

A United Airlines pilot who was pulled from his trans-Atlantic flight to Chicago shortly before takeoff pleaded guilty Tuesday to being above the alcohol limit for flying a plane.

Erwin Vermont Washington, of Lakewood, Colorado, was removed from United Airlines Flight 949, which was scheduled to fly from London's Heathrow Airport to Chicago in November, after a co-worker suspected him of being drunk.

Prosecutor Kevin Christie said two policemen spoke to Washington about the concerns and performed a breath test especially designed for aviation staff, which he failed. He recorded a reading of 31 micrograms of alcohol per 100 milliliters of breath. The legal limit is nine micrograms.

The flight was canceled and the plane's 124 passengers were put on other flights.

A blood test performed shortly after the breath test also showed that Washington had 50 milligrams of alcohol in 100 milliliters of blood. The limit for pilots is 20 milligrams. the legal limit for driving a car is 80 milligrams.

The 51-year-old pilot pleaded guilty at Uxbridge Magistrates Court near London and was released on unconditional bail. He will be sentenced Feb. 5.

United Airlines said in a statement that the pilot has been removed from service duty during legal proceedings and the company's own investigation.

Washington's lawyer, Chris Humphreys, said the pilot was remorseful.

Referring to similar cases, Humphreys said an American Airlines pilot who recorded a reading of 39 milligrams of alcohol was given a fine last July, Another pilot who had 60 milligrams of alcohol in 100 milliliters of blood was given a suspended sentence.

Britain's Crown Prosecution Service said the maximum sentence for aviation staff being over the legal limit for flying is two years in jail and a fine.