Drunk Captain & Going Below DH

[slomo]

What are the generally accepted answers to the questions on what you would do when the captain shows up with alcohol on his breath and the one who does not respond when you arrive at DH and airport is not in sight.?

 

[General Lee]

My answer would be "I would NEVER EVER let a DRUNK Captain go below DH----no way--especially if he is drunk......"

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[OPECJet]

"So you've flown with '________'".

 

[CatfishVT9]

Answers

I got asked both of these at a Pinnacle interview a few weeks ago. On the alcohol question, it was ambiguous, so think it through. I said we needed to resolve it before moving and ask hard questions of the folks involved (Capt or FA). Be proactive but not over-reactive. Hope this makes sense.

On the DH question, I said call minimums, call again emphatically with the term "waveoff" (old military coming out), then take the aircraft if he's still descending with no runway environment in sight. I emphasized that taking the aircraft was a serious action, but that safety of the aircraft and passengers is priority one. I also said that if that happened I would have a discussion with the captain after the flight and make certain I hadn't misread anything and discuss it further with the Chief Pilot. They seemed somewhat satisfied with that answer but asked "is there anyone else who could help out?" I was too stupid at the time to realize they were hinting to call "missed approach" over the radio to tower, since this will cancel your landing clearance.

In hindsight, the best answer would be; call minimums, call tower, then take the aircraft as a last resort.

Hope this helps,
Catfish

 

[WhiteCloud]

A drunk Captain raises the mins to 400 and 1/2 so that would be above DA (H). My real answer is to ask the Captain to call in sick first and assist him in seeking help for his problem. If he's belligerent just go up through the chain of command so the situation can be handled at the lowest level possible. Under NO circumstances do you fly with him/her.

 

[RJPilott]

If WX is at mins, a good Decent/Approach brief should uncover any intentions the Capt may have about going below DH and hopefully can be resolved before you even start the approach. However, fighting for aircraft control at 200 AGL is not a good idea no matter how wrong the Capt is by going below DH. Call missed, call it again on radio, then back him/her up. After, proceed to b1tch slap them once on the ground.

 

[xdashdriver]

Would you really be fighting for the controls? Is there substantial case history to back up the assumption that taking control of the aircraft would result in a tussle? I don't know, that's why I'm asking the question.

 

[RJPilott]

There is no place for ego in the cockpit i agree. But if the Capt is commited to busting mins, i'd probably think he would fight for control of the airplane. Do you want to find out if he will fight you with 3-5 seconds before impact? I dont, i want to make sure he is dead on the Glideslope and Loc if we are tounching down in a few short seconds. If you have already made the SOP two calls, that means you are already well below mins and probably at 100 AGL before even thinking of taking control. Not a good idea to say "My Airplane" at that point. But like i said above, and history does show, a good decent/approach brief will get both crewmembers on the same page before even starting the approach. I havent met to many liars in a briefing situation. If you feel the Capt has any intent on busting mins, this is the time you should speak up, not at 100 AGL.

 

[RJPilott]

almost forgot one thing. Most transport category aircraft have disconnecting ailerons and elevators if one or the other control surface becomes frozen. In order to dsconnect those surfaces a certain force needs to be applied. if the Capt is pushing down and you are pulling, there is a good chance you will disconnect the elevator and he will have control of the left elevator (pushing down) and you will have control of the right elevator (pulling up). Thats REAL bad Ju-Ju at 100 AGL. Not my kind of dance.

As far as history showing no fights for control after busting mins?
I dont think i want to rely on a few past history to see if my Capt will or will not fight for control so close to the ground. Call missed twice, once on radio, Back him up, make sure the Loc and GS are nailed, then make sure the CVR and FDR are pulled once safely on the ground. Again, it should never come to this if there is a good solid approach brief.

 

[ilinipilot]

Some good answers and more importantly actions you can take are.

Below DH :start moving your hands towards the throttle, address the CPT by his or her name, call ATC, increase the volume of your voice.

Drunk CPT is usually asked in terms of you are a new hire or probationary pilot:
Some good responses I heard are:
If you see the pilot drinking in the hotel bar during 8 hour window

Ask the pilot if your takeoff or show time has changed,
Do they know what time it is
Tell them its within the hour limit

If you suspect they are drunk or drinking:
take yourself off the flight,
If you are new ask someone more senior to you like an older FO what to do

The line I would give is this,
If the CPT is drunk or drinking with in limits you should remember that their actions affect not only them but The company, the passengers and every other employee.

D