Down With The Major Ego!

[Kaman]

Hello,
Here are a couple of talking points for you to ponder. First of all, when has ALPA or any union for that matter ever made an admission of a mistaken policy or decision. ALPA missed the boat on the entire scope issue, and now the genie is out of the bottle, it's too late to get him back in. I will concede that the economics of 1992 were far different from today, but nevertheless it was and still is the biggest single misjudgement on the part of ALPA.
I'd also like some of you to ponder how many major airline pilots began their careers. With the exception of the military, a good percentage of the remainder came from the so-called "commuter" (regional) airlines. Anyone that is going to make incoherent arguments about taking a regional airline job simply doesn't know the demographics of their profession.
In the final analysis, I'd like to see a good argument for what ALPA has done for the regional airline pilot (I'm non-union). In the era before deregulation (1978) ALPA was a great organization, but has since been broken up into as many cliques as fraternity row on a large college campus. Sad metaphor, but it is the truth in my opinion.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

PROUD COMMUTER AIRLINE PILOT

 

[737 Pylt]

We marry women with a different family name. Paris isn't in Alabama.

You're right....You guys are too busy burning down your neighborhoods!

It doesn't bother me that you prefer Boeings. Air Frog flies both fleet to accomodate everyone's preferences. The 380 will prove to be an outstanding product for its market. And Air Frog is still better than Delta.

Camembert

So is UAL, AA, CO....BFD! I know our airline sucks, its because of piss poor management.
So how goes the surrender practice?? Need more white flags!?
But you frogs will lose money hand over fist over the 380....How much over budget is that pig anyway?? You will NEVER make any money on it!
737

 

[KCPilot]

Do you Air France guys get wine with your inflight meal? If so, sign me up!

 

[Kaman]

Hey KC,
Where did you get your BE-23 time? I used to flight instruct in those and we had quite a few IFT guys from VA Tech. go through where I worked. BTW, My brother-in-law flew KC-135s out of Pease AFB.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[KCPilot]

A buddy of mine had one out at Nut Tree by Travis AFB. I think he got rid of it since he is waiting to get recalled by Hawaiian.

 

[General Lee]

First of all I am married with three kids and a mortgage and a wife that is a full time student. Second, I owned a flight school/ charter company prior to 9/11 and only went to the airlines because I needed a schedule I could depend on. Third there would be no problem in the airline industry had ALPA and the legacy pilots they love not been so put off at the idea of flying a little jet. Now that you are shrinking and you have a possible furlough on the horizon we are the scurge for taking "your" flying when you did'nt want it before. So have you turned in your ballot for congress cause you guys are good at the doublespeak.
P.S. Does general lee just cut and paste? All his posts say the same thing.
P.S.S. I also at one time sold vacuum cleaners, though I'd rather not talk about it.

Cathy Le.......I mean General Lee probably never really WORKED for a living before becoming ...whatever he has..........become?
Nothing wrong with the the regionals except pay and respect. Five day trips with six legs per day only make you appreciate life in the majors.I'll ALWAYS respect regional guys because I'll never forget where I came from.
It's funny how humble the "PROFESSIONALS" are when they are begging for a ride home on a...........gasp...regional.

Wow, that was funny. Nice Cathy Lee comment. That was genius. You could fill in for me at the Laugh Barn on Tuesday nights.... My posts do say a lot of the same things, since many on here can't seem to understand the realities out there. Repetition. It can work sometimes. And I respect regional pilots, and I came from that world too, which you have obviously missed. See, you don't take time to even look at my "flying experience" and see the EM2--or Brasilia. What have you become? A Southwest pilot.... Great for you. Enjoy that. Wow. Many out there today can't see the forrest through the trees. Larger RJs at the regionals hurt everyone. IF you can't understand that, then you are lost too. You sound lost already.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[nethan]

I think the problem is that some guys at regionals have decided to stay there for what ever reason. They don't want to take the pay cut. They don't want to go back on reserve. They don't want to learn a new plane. They can't get hired again. Who knows. But what ever the reasons they are sticking it out where they are. This group used to consist of only the high year guys who would be out in a little while anyways, but I am starting to see more and more guys that have another 10 to 15 years to go that are makeing the decisions to stay put. Good for them. The problem of course is that because they have decided to stay they (and I am generalizing) think it is ok for them to screw up other people's chances of moving on. I guess it comes down to how much of a united industry this is or isn't. As several people have already said here, "ME ME ME ME" and "screw everybody else". Well, I guess that is what we (the people that are trying to get somewhere else someday the the people that are already somewhere else and trying to make it better) are going to have to deal with. It sort of sucks that the industry is going to get even more divided beyond the pilots-managment and regional-major and major-lcc thing. Now it is going to become regional lifers and regional progressers (for lack of better word).

 

[Camembert]

You're right....You guys are too busy burning down your neighborhoods!

And you are too busy burning down other's neighborhoods in Iraq; I guess we all have our own hobbies.

So is UAL, AA, CO....BFD! I know our airline sucks, its because of piss poor management.
So how goes the surrender practice?? Need more white flags!?
But you frogs will lose money hand over fist over the 380....How much over budget is that pig anyway?? You will NEVER make any money on it!
737

So because you are so angry at your airline, is that a reason to bash other people airlines? I wonder what Fedex pilots will have to say about the 380. Air France is a great place to work for and is successful thanks to a better management than Delta. There is no shame to say nice things about France or being gay, we will take good care of you here.

Camembert

 

[Camembert]

Do you Air France guys get wine with your inflight meal? If so, sign me up!

We go by the same rules as you do: 8 hours legal limit, and we have a first class galley that doesn't keep track.


Camembert

 

[PHXFLYR]

name calling again

Yeah, ever notice how these commuter punks have mouths like cesspools? Feels like 9th grade all over again....


PHXFLYR

 

[Axel]

...YOU GUYS ARE THE ONES WHO SOLD OUT ORIGINALLY

YOU GUYS are the who created the market.

 

[PHXFLYR]

You must be high.

Their customers are also your cutomers. No customers for Delta, none for you.

PUHLEEEZE.....Don't go confusing "Capt Kid" with the facts now.

PHXFLYR

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Yeah, ever notice how these commuter punks have mouths like cesspools? Feels like 9th grade all over again....


PHXFLYR

You should come fly long haul freight for a while!! Gets to the point that you feel like washing your own mouth out with soap!!

 

[79%N1]

Yeah, ever notice how these commuter punks have mouths like cesspools? Feels like 9th grade all over again....


PHXFLYR

Here we go again!!! Talk about Major ego's.

 

[jeroom]

You're right....You guys are too busy burning down your neighborhoods!



So is UAL, AA, CO....BFD! I know our airline sucks, its because of piss poor management.
So how goes the surrender practice?? Need more white flags!?
But you frogs will lose money hand over fist over the 380....How much over budget is that pig anyway?? You will NEVER make any money on it!
737

I wouldn't bet too much on that one...

 

[PHXFLYR]

You should come fly long haul freight for a while!! Gets to the point that you feel like washing your own mouth out with soap!!

I did for a while....DC8's with ATI. And man ,are you right. I'm no angel,but if I had gotten paid my hourly rate for every time I heard the "f word", I could have retired a million air...whew!!

PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Here we go again!!! Talk about Major ego's.

No ego....just the facts. Don't believe me, just surf the regional forum here and find out for yourself.Makes you think the term "professional pilot" is nothing more than an oxymoron.


PHXFLYR

 

[737 Pylt]

No ego....just the facts. Don't believe me, just surf the regional forum here and find out for yourself.Makes you think the term "professional pilot" is nothing more than an oxymoron.


PHXFLYR

79% is a tool! Nice to see he is gone for 10 days!
737

 

[John Pennekamp]

WRONG. We control your destiny. IF we say NO to the company---you and I will go away. If they say YES, you will get what WE say. That is good, because maybe more of you COULD come over here and actually start a career with an airline that can offer upward movement. IF you think that we will always stay in the rut we are in, then you are mistaken. I will post an article that states the Global industry should recover and could make $7.2 BILLION in 2007(US Airlines cutting their losses in HALF--getting better). Will our contract always suk? Probably not. Will the regional level ever get higher? Probably not. You should WANT to move up. We DO wear the pants, and you need to understand that. You are our feed, and we control the scope, or this place goes away. And, I am NOT a regional pilot---since I have the ability to fly GLOBALLY--at better pay than your highest paid pilot. Chitty Work rules? I work 3 days a week, often flying one leg a day myself. No Food? I got a first class meal on my last leg to the Carribean last week. My last 4 day had an allnighter and I got a good sandwich. You had better HOPE we get an agreement that keeps our SCOPE, or you will be out of a job too. Is that cocky? It is the truth.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General, you're so out of touch.

First of all, NOBODY is flushing ANYBODY's job down the toilet. You're posturing, and it's pathetic. Get a grip! DAL will begin undermining your contract and handing "your" narrowbody flying out to contractors the week after you sign your concessionary deal. It's happened every time before, and it will happen again. You can't put the horse back in the barn. You let the horse out in,'96, in '2000 you let it get knocked up, and now there's a whole herd of them running around.

Second, humor us by telling us exactly what the highest paid ASA pilots makes. I know him, I'll post the truth. What do you think he makes?

Third, if you did a straw poll of ASA pilots, you would find that very few, if any still dream of flying Delta Heavy Iron. Those that do are mostly new hires who aren't jaded yet or Delta kids. Most ASA pilots who plan to leave are going to Airtran, Jetblue, Southwest. Many plan to stay here. See, Delta and the other "legacy" carriers aren't what they used to be. No pension, downward pressure, no growth. You're just not where it's at any more. No, the new airlines are where people want to be, and that's why you get very little traction with your "you could be here" comments. The cold hard truth is that very few regional pilots envy you.

Finally, the fact that someone as intelligent as you wastes your copious time off arguing with RJ pilots speaks volumes for your self esteem. Think about how you sound. Have you noticed you're one of two mighty Delta pilots who sit around and argue with a bunch of kids all day?

Now I'm going fishing. You keep arguing. See ya.

 

[JumpCaptain]

Second, humor us by telling us exactly what the highest paid ASA pilot makes. I know him, I'll post the truth. What do you think he makes?

Don't keep us all in suspense.

 

[pgcfii2002]

I am half way through my bag of popcorn and need another beer.

 

[xjhawk]

general lee, get off your high horse, beleive me, its not the your side my side game we should be playing. Take what is happening over at NWA, they are just basically starting another regional airline to use in the whipsaw action to get ever lower payrates and crappy work rules. Oh and by the way, if the TA passes, it will be sanctioned by the NWA piilots......so it will obviously be blamed on MEsaba and Pinacle for their new ********************ty pay and work rules. All so those wide body guys can keep the status Quo.............enough of this....

oh and by having that name offends me, the real general lee was a great general and a proud man, and the orange car was just way cool.....you are not quite up to par to have that name .....get a new one.....like VW bug or.....how about general grant....since he beat his head and was known as bloody grant for how he bloodied his troops....since you like to bloody regional pilots. enough said......get over it.

 

[okcplt]

deleted...

 

[Pat Fabin]

As far as DAL no longer being envied and people are dreaming about going to JBlue, AirTran, SWA, FDX, UPS, CAL, etc....its because they are the ones HIRING....its that simple. They are the carriers that will currently offer you a longterm QOL improvement over where you are currently working. It makes no sense to be dreaming about DAL, UAL, NWA, AMR, USAir right now....it'll be awhile before we collectively hire again. But things change.

You know what's funny is that when (or if) Delta turns around, makes a profit, buys mainline aircraft...Delta will hire again. Then the threads will begin: "anyone know about the DAL interview?" "how many recommendation letters do I need?" "how long until I can hold the 767?" "how long is upgrade on the xxxx?" "The interview process at DAL is unfair...I didn't get hired"

When I got hired at DAL, everyone at my old commuter was suddenly my buddy. When I was furloughed, I only heard from a handful. (the real friends) Even a few enjoyed kicking me while I was down...telling me I should have stayed on the RJ...blah blah blah. I'm sure I'll hear from a couple of them one day, wondering how the hiring is going...wondering about a recommendation letter.

All of you guys having fun kicking <insert airline here> pilots while they are down should remember that in this industry its very likely you maye become the kickee someday.

-PF

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

All of you guys having fun kicking <insert airline here> pilots while they are down should remember that in this industry its very likely you maye become the kickee someday.

-PF

Change "very likely" to "absolute certain" and you have the correct phrase.

It is not a matter of if, but when.

No airline stays on top forever, if one ever does it will be a first since Wilbur and Orville figured out how to build the things.

 

[007]

Guys who apply for and take regional jobs know and accept that they will be lil b1tches and undermining the industry walking thru the front door on the first day. How can they not be? You can't afford to live on the starting wage so why take the job?
YOU GUYS ARE THE ONES WHO SOLD OUT ORIGINALLY, taking a regional job at regional pay. And yes major guys will now be flying for regional rates until we can get the flying back and repair the damage of flying for nothing because you reside in your parents basement. Thanks for ruining a once great profession.
You make me want to throw-up.

I guess you were born in 737.

Let me guess, either you're military or a CAL 83 hire.
I think maybe your arrogant butt should have scoped the "it's not a real jet"
to start with and we would not have this mess. Like anyone could ever live on first year pay at a commuter/regional.
I usually don't chime in but that was just wrong.

 

[FlyingFerris]

UPDATE 2-Airline group sees $7.2 bln sector profit in 2007
Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:32 PM ET
(Adds crude oil price forecast)
NEW YORK, March 22 (Reuters) - The International Air Transport Association said on Wednesday it expects the industry to post a larger profit in 2007 than it previously anticipated as demand grows and carriers benefit from leaner, more efficient operations.


The global airlines body raised its 2007 forecast for global industry profit -- the first in six years -- to $7.2 billion from $6.2 billion previously, Chief Executive Giovanni Bisignani said at an industry event in New York.
IATA cut its forecast of the global industry's losses in 2006 by half to $2.2 billion. U.S. carriers are expected to lose $5.4 billion in 2006, half the losses they posted in 2005. The projections assume crude oil to cost $52 a barrel in 2007 and $57 a barrel in 2006.

Wow the global airlines posted a profit. Amazing. Who woulda thunk the rest of the world could make up for the sucking whole the US is in this industry sector.

 

[Standby 1]

And you are too busy burning down other's neighborhoods in Iraq; I guess we all have our own hobbies.

he he he....the man (or lady) has a point.

Not sure why anyone would be ticked off because Air France is doing well....you people who start hurling ethnic insults at another pilot because they are working for an airline that is treating it's pilots well are seriously whacked.

That being said, when exactly are pilots in this country going to take back their profession? When we're all flying for $10 an hour? Mistakes, big mistakes, have been made here folks by all of us. Legacy pilots gave it all away and regional pilots whored themselves to take it. Both share equal blame for the situation we all find ourselves in now.

But it can be fixed. The time is rapidly approaching where there will be no more concessions to give. Everyone capitulated on concessions because the prevalent thinking was a lower-paying job was better than no job at all. That mind-set has got to go.

A revolution of sorts has got to occur in this profession for any improvement to be seen. And unfortunately for most of us, we won't see any of that improvement in our careers. It took many years for us to screw it all up and it will take even longer to rectify the situation.

Deep down, most all of you know what has to be done. As of yet, it's been easier to be angry and play the blame game. All of us are to blame, but who will be the first to start the domino-effect of real change?

 

[pilotyip]

Standby1 the domino effect has already started with airlines on the entry level. They have had to redefine their competitive hiring minimums to the point they can no longer be lowered. They are having trouble filling ther classes because no one wants to do the job. Look at Pinnacle, 15 months ago, and no pay in GS, no hotel or living expenses. They could not fill their classes, so they have upped the ante. I think they are also giving a $1,000 signing bonus, with free agency option at the end of the simulator training. Only kidding about the free agency.

 

[N2264J]

I think maybe your arrogant butt should have scoped the "it's not a real jet" to start with and we would not have this mess.

No. It's not about scoping airplanes. This mess came about when ALPA based the premise of scope on limiting airplanes instead of including the pilots who fly those planes. The segregation of the industry arises from this misguided arrogance and it's hurting everyone.

"All brand name flying will be done by brand name pilots." Whether it's in a Beech 1900 or a 747. Simple and enforcable. Let management decide what aircraft is appropriate and profitable for a particular market instead of trying to control the marketplace with a union contract which is doomed to fail and always will be.