Double All Major Pilot Pay

[IUSTACHECKEM]

For the past 35 plus years, major airlines have:
1. Wanted no competition (got it)
2. Told pilots "your part of our family, will take care of you" with that paycuts and labor strife.
3. Told us to trust them with our pensions. They are Lorenzo proof.
4. We could get any monkey to fly a plane.
5. Now set Billion Dollar Quarters

Funny how all this is now a major issue to the major airlines. Now more that ever is the time for major airline pilots to say "I only want double my pay and I will take care of my own retirement." With all of the 9 and 8 year pilots out there with little or no retirement to speak of you would be able to rebuild some of your earnings back. With the shortage yes shortage of acceptable pilots and record profits, now is the time to demand no less.
The impact on any state with a major hub would devastate the tax base of the state and thus pressure would be placed by government.
Few pilots are in the training pipeline and the new ones with have to put in a few years to get to ATP level.
Load factors this summer were at an all time high (yes you can increase the ticket price).
WAKE UP!

 

[Freebrd]

good stuff you're smokin' there

 

[Tail Gunner Joe]

My new motto

Double Pay to the Last Day

 

[Jim Smyth]

The problem is Pilots will stab each other in the back and not work in unison. They tried going for a national seniority list many years ago with no luck. Each Pilot group at each Airline not wanting any part of it.

If you want to look at it from a more close up and personal perspective that's recent look at age 60/65 debate. The young want the old guys out. No love there either with that being a win win for everyone. 5 extra years of earning potential. Nope, get out of my seat was the attitude.

Many other trades give credit for experience and you get paid appropriately for that experience. Not in Aviation. You start over and go to the bottom of the list. For as much as Pilots think there above average intelligence it really makes you wonder.

The Airline management keep laughing all the way to the bank pitting us against each other. Someday I hope someone will unite all Pilots at all the Airlines and you pay for the experiance or you dont get the planes flown! But it hasn't gotten that bad yet so this same current trend will continue.

 

[Ty Webb]

. . . If you want to look at it from a more close up and personal perspective that's recent look at age 60/65 debate. The young want the old guys out. No love there either with that being a win win for everyone. 5 extra years of earning potential. Nope, get out of my seat was the attitude. . . .

For the FO, it's 5 more years at FO pay. . . . NOT a win from the FO side.

If you really want to do it in a fair manner, then let the Age 60+ guys fly FO. That would have been closer to a win/win; you wouldn't be delaying anyone's upgrade, and those who truly need it, or have a horrible homelife could keep working.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

The biggest problem with age 65 is that ALPA, in their infinite wisdom decided to implement this change while thousands of pilots were still on furlough post 9/11!

It wasn't just a matter of an FO not upgrading as fast as he thought he should. They kept us on the STREET for years longer than would otherwise have been necessary!

I don't disagree that 65 was a good idea. The timing could not have possibly been worse.

 

[filejw]

The biggest problem with age 65 is that ALPA, in their infinite wisdom decided to implement this change while thousands of pilots were still on furlough post 9/11!

It wasn't just a matter of an FO not upgrading as fast as he thought he should. They kept us on the STREET for years longer than would otherwise have been necessary!

I don't disagree that 65 was a good idea. The timing could not have possibly been worse.

I'll give you ALPA decided not to fight age 65 but they really had no part in implementing it. I was an ICAO deal that was coming one way or another ...

 

[FurloughedAgain]

That doesn't make the timing any better. And all of the major pilot unions fought for it to recover some of the retirement dollars that the senior guys (close to retirement) lost when the markets collapsed post 9/11, and during bankruptcies when the PBGC took over the retirement accounts and have them pennies on the dollar.

I get it. I understand exactly why they did it. My point was that is was done on the backs of furloughees. Those senior guys should have had a cushion. They knew full well that it could be a bull market or a bear market on their 60th birthday and been ready for it. Instead they fought for another five years to make up what was lost.

I don't disparage them for wanting to do what they did. Again, it was a timing issue. If they did the same thing during a big hiring surge, nobody would have said much about it. But they did it during a period of downsizing and stagnation which caused many of us to lose a decade of seniority -- in many cases we didn't even go back to the major who furloughed us because so much time had passed we were too invested in our NEW careers to go back to the old one.

My point is, let's not make this about greedy FOs who didn't get to upgrade as fast they hoped. This was about a union that should protect the professions of its most senior and most junior members equally, displaying favoritism to its highest dues paying members to the detriment of junior pilots careers. The union make a mistake in a decade of terrible union mistakes (TWA travesty, eliminating scope on 50-90 seat airplanes, jets4jobs...)

The 2000s were the darkest chapter in ALPAs history. They should be ashamed, but they are too arrogant to admit their mistakes.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Was swapa in favor of raising the retirement age? If so, did they actively lobby for it?

 

[KiddDynomite]

The age 65 rule as previously stated was timed terribly and along with 9/11 has ruined many careers. The problem is ALPO has not not been a union for the last thirty years but a business. They don't represent pilots, they generate income. Let's face it the "B" scale, what a joke. I'm 45 years old with a boatload of experience and I have to give up my career goals, something I have worked for since I was 15 to acheive, because I cannot afford to go to work for chump change! You say I'm a professional then why do you want to pay me chump wages? Probabtion? Give me a #&@$ing break, I've paid my dues and I'll show up when I have to and do the job like the professional I am. When are we going to stand up? The time has come and gone. This idea of continually accepting concessions, having our retirements robbed and our careers stagnated or destroyed has got to stop. If the airline is bankrupt, shut it down! No concessions! If these crooks running the shows cannot perform and figure out a way to keep the ship afloat, then let it sink! I have yet to see one CEO take a paycut or forego a bonus. That's not happening, so why should pilots take it in the shorts? All age 65 did was get a bunch more guys on the cheap. Why would anyone want to keep doing this crap at 65? Get serious, demand the pay and get out ASAP and enjoy life! At 45 I can't do it. I have a class date at the "New American" and I cannot afford to go. There goes my brass ring! Thanks aviation you ********************ing suck!!!