DOT seeks age 60 opinion, young guys speak up

[KCPilot]

There are good points made by most here and we know it’s not about trying to keep experience or safety in the cockpit. Age 65 will not do that. What it is about is the lost money. The bottom line is we all know the mandatory retirement age is 60. In my current job the mandatory age is 55 and I’m planning accordingly. I’m sorry that the pilots approaching 60 lost your pension but unless you have an ex or two or other problems, you should have been able to save some of that income you made back in the glory days of the airlines (I know some with a million in the bank now) and not worry too much about the pension. Don’t get me wrong, the pension is a real nice thing to have and I wish it would stay around, but here we are now, so deal with it.

The pilots approaching age 60 have seen the airline industry go from a round dial 707 with an FE to the full up glass 777 with 2 pilots. You have seen the hot young flight attendants and now they have grown old as you have. For some that are 59+, you might feel like you can go on for another 5 years and you probably can, but remember the rule is not there for the few that are okay to fly like you, it there for the masses and just because ICAO did it doesn’t make it right for us. I’d like to go fly for an airline someday, but if I have to wait 5 more years to get there, what’s the point since I’ll have to work to age 60 then. At that point I’d rather be on a sailboat or flying a float plane around to go fishing rather than working for the airline to age 65.

Say what you want about this, but that is how I see this whole age 65 thing!

 

[bayoubandit]

No age limit will ever solve the woes of those who need the money. They can raise the age limit to infinity and there will be those who will find a reason to call fowl.

I don't want to have to rely on a higher age to make the same gains that should have been attained by age 60. Payscales will probably go from 12 year max to 18 year to offset paying 6 years at a higher rate. Mgmt. will,as always, find a way to reap any benefits that may come from an increased retirement age.

To me, this sounds like a good idea now, but for reasons we don't see today we will in 10 years and ask what the hell were we thinking.

I'll take 60. Thank you!

The real problem is the raping of employees and abuse of the BK system. I don't understand why there isn't a larger push to hold companies accountable instead of screwing ourselves.

 

[aussiefly]

This is not about safety or discrimination or anything else. It's all about $ and retirements. They knew the risks and rewards of this industry, they have had the golden years at a major of their choice and now they want to pull the ladder up behind them. It sucks.

This is just another classic case of the top 10% eating their young.

Thanks again

 

[munson]

Lear, man I'm sorry, I dont know what to say. To think that what someone types on a computer in a message room could get you so " hot headed" as to wish their death... I'm sorry your life has so little meaning. Dude, seroiusly, you can keep your seat, which is probably the RIGHT seat for you. Do you really think management is not going to find a way to screw everyone with this? As someone else said, just wait to see what is around that corner. When I got in the game, the rule was 60, now YOU want it changed, and I gotta pay the price. But I guess that is just the ME attitude coming out again. I just dont understand why someone would want to do this job any longer than they have to. Do I love to fly...heck yes. But I also look at the fact that it takes me away from other things that I love...family, fishing, ect. There isnt any "job" that I would rather be doing, but in the end, its still just that, a job. When you are lying there on your death bed at 67, 2 years out of flying, are you gonna be saying..." Man, if..I...could.....only......have.....had..one...more...flight...aaaahhhhh. I hope not, you need to get your priorities straight. But then again, they are your priorities to put in any order you want, not mine. Good luck with that.
Flame on brutha...im out

 

[BoilerUP]

Since you don't like change I hope you enjoy flying your BE20/40 or CL65 till you reach 60. Seems only fair since you knew what your flying. Stay where you are and let someone else get the job at a major. Sounds just as reasonable as your ignorant argument. The nothing ever changes gang.

What? This does not make ANY sense. Step away from your emotion...

I'll be stuck flying a "small jet" for a longer period of time than I'd like if Age 60 becomes Age 65. Pilots that are furloughed will be on the street longer if Age 60 becomes Age 65. However, those pilots currently at legacies & LCCs (who all benefitted in their career from an artificial retirement ceiling at 60) will remain in their seats because they seek extra $$$ because of lost pensions/ex-wives/living beyond their means/because they can. Since movement only happens because of attrition or growth, the rapid hiring you see at places like CAL because of retirements would come to a screeching HALT, slowing movement down across the industry.

I'm young at 23 years old. I have the most to lose from an Age 60 change because of my age, while somebody older has the most to gain. You might say that I'll more than make that up at the top of my earning potential, but I say no thanks...there's no way in HELL I want to be doing this job, spending half the month in hotels and dragging a 20+lb flight bag up and down steps when I'm over 60. No thank you. You had your turn...and you knew the rules.

Bottom line is this: I don't want my career to be punished because of YOUR financial mismanagement. And as I said, yes that is selfish - but no more selfish than changing the rules YOU benefitted from once its beneficial to YOU.

 

[Full of LUV]

Safety is a factor

Everyone knows how to find a first class medical doc. Does a 61 yr old capt with a touch of dimentia have a doc who will look him in the eye and say, "your just not the same as last year maybe it's time to hang it up" That's what is left to families with drivers liscense and thats why seniors in Florida have little fender benders all the time. There has to be a cutoff someday if just to weed out those who are in early denial.

 

[Cobra]

I don't get it. Why would I want to end the career of an experienced pilot just to move up one seniority number.

Unity! (until it serves my purpose)

Yeah, it goes both ways pal. Unfortunately, for the "old" guys you are being out voted 2 to 1 on this issue. The poll alone on this site proves that.

 

[PurpleInMEM]

Just another case of the old guys screwing the furloughed guys. Oh yeah, I forgot, no one wants to mention them. The way I see it they took a 100% cut in pay. Now someone please justify keeping a 60 year old for 5 more years when even one pilot is furloughed. I'm sure there is someone that will tell me that changing the age is "good" for the furloughed guy too.

The pro change crowd makes me sick. Bunch of self-serving dirtbags.

And for the pro-ICAO crowd....what ICAO does has no bearing here. This country can regulate its pilots any way it sees fit.

 

[Flybynite]

I'm young at 23 years old. I have the most to lose from an Age 60 change because of my age, while somebody older has the most to gain. You might say that I'll more than make that up at the top of my earning potential, but I say no thanks...there's no way in HELL I want to be doing this job, spending half the month in hotels and dragging a 20+lb flight bag up and down steps when I'm over 60. No thank you. You had your turn...and you knew the rules.
[/quote

Just 23 and already hate the career you don't even have. You should quit now, you will be really bitter in 20 years. If I have to retire in 15 years, when I turn 60, so be it. Money won't be the problem. I happen to like the company I work for and the job I have. I want the option to keep working. I'll give up my seat to someone who is already miserable and at 23 can't wait to retire. I feel for you choosing the wrong profession.

 

[Lear70]

The real problem is the raping of employees and abuse of the BK system. I don't understand why there isn't a larger push to hold companies accountable instead of screwing ourselves.

You're absolutely right, and I've been saying for a while that, since it's the Federal Government that refused pension reform, allowed pension funding rules to be changed 20+ years ago, and basically created this whole mess through their appointments in the legal system, then the Federal Government needs to fix it.

I actually proposed a mandatory $10 "pension tax" that every company who filed bankruptcy must pay on every ticket they sell after they exit bankruptcy that goes into a general invesment fund for the pensions of those who retire and have no ability to make up the shortfall that the government created.

Unfortunately, the people at ALPA I brought it up with a year ago weren't interested and it's easier to fight each other (age 65 battle) than the government (any real kind of reform).

General, you're very possibly right, but I know what would solve Europe's pilot shortage problem: refuse non-citizens any right whatsoever to fly for U.S. carriers and send them back to where they came from. It's bad enough they came over here for training because it was cheaper, but then they took a bunch of U.S. flying jobs. NOT cool... but I digress.

Munson, I wasn't wishing death on anyone, that's what I meant by "I was trying to make a point and got carried away". I would never tell someone I don't even know that I wished they were dead. What I DID say (and meant to get across) was that it would be poetic justice if you and those so aggressively saying "get out of my seat" would be somehow grounded and unable to fly before you were ready to stop which is basically what age 60 is for people who are still physically and mentally able to carry on.

I'll admit, it's personal for me. I watch my dad who just turned 60 at the top of his game out preflighting a fu*king Malibu for some corporate gueek here in town and I think "Some 24-year-old should be out there doing that." He doesn't care that it only pays $200 a day and only flies 2 or 3 days a week, he just wants to fly but misses his Boeing. I can't blame him, and I know this won't give him back his job, but it WILL set things right for the future.

Like I said, it doesn't benefit me, it actually hurts me (as I plan to be retired well before age 60), but I think it's the right thing and wouldn't it be nice to have that OPTION when you get to that age?

To others who keep talking about the ways the guys near retirement "mismanaged their money" during the "golden years": What if it wasn't financial mismanagement or infidelity that caused your financial problem but a family member with a medical condition? What if the only way to meet the financial obligations of all the medical bills was to keep making what you were making? Would you feel better about it then?

You are applying a broad, general label based on an emotional response and making it personal. Open your eyes and expand your horizon a bit...

Cobra, you're missing something on your unscientific poll: most of the guys over 50 may not even OWN a laptop (or even a home computer unless required to bid), much less bother to go to (or even know where) flightinfo is.

The fight is a lot closer of a margin than you think it is because guys in that age bracket sure as heck know how to network and write their representatives in Congress and Senate as well as the FAA.

This website, responses, and polls are only as good as the demographic that is on here and responds... Young guys like us grew up with it.