DOT seeks age 60 opinion, young guys speak up

[NoJoy]

Very true. If the age 60 rule is overturned, then the pilot is the left seat must not be 60. If they want to fly so bad-ie no $ for retirement, then they can enjoy the right seat for 5 years-and the pay that goes with it. Having two pilots up front older than 60 is a bad idea, and dare I say-unsafe.

 

[Flybynite]

Having two pilots up front older than 60 is a bad idea, and dare I say-unsafe.

Did you come up with this based on all your practical experience in the industry?

 

[Lear70]

Did you come up with this based on all your practical experience in the industry?

I'm certain, along with his M.D. no doubt...

 

[Cyclone]

no perfect law

Age 60 is there to protect us and to protect the public from having pilots too old flying airplanes.

Is age 60 too old? For some hell yes for most hell no.

Change it to 65. You just change the number not the law (it still discriminates against all 65+ year olds).
Is age 65 too old? For some hell yes for some hell no.

Can't they come up with a better law. The argument "age 60 is age discrimination." OK so what...so are all the other age rules tied to employment and there are plenty...so shut up.

The argument "just do what the ICAO does." OK we should do that .... then we can be just like France, Germany, Spain, and all the other role setters in this world. Johnny just jumped off a bridge so here I go mommy.

What I am seeing is no logic...mostly crybaby 55+ year olds trying to get their agenda through...that doesn't necessarily help us or the public. Fact is most of those guys...the 55+ ers are a pain in the rear to fly with. It's not 100% but I do believe the older guys are more set in their ways and definitely more embittered and less fun = less safe too. Just go retire already or find a nice fractional job.

 

[BoilerUP]

Very true. If the age 60 rule is overturned, then the pilot is the left seat must not be 60. If they want to fly so bad-ie no $ for retirement, then they can enjoy the right seat for 5 years-and the pay that goes with it. Having two pilots up front older than 60 is a bad idea, and dare I say-unsafe.

That is actually a decent compromise that would not affect career progression. In years past, over 60 pilots could spend as many years as they wanted on the FE panel, allowing those junior to move up while allowing to top out on the FE scale (over $100/hr at every legacy) to make additional income & retirement. Now, ensure the CA to be under 60 and the FO to be up to 65 and you could provide more retirement funds for older pilots without providing them with a career windfall. I wonder how many Captains would stick around in the right seat if this was an option "for the love of the career".

You know flybynite, you sure seem critical of the background of those that disagree with you, but you've yet to tell us anything about your own personal work history...

 

[Flybynite]

You know flybynite, you sure seem critical of the background of those that disagree with you, but you've yet to tell us anything about your own personal work history...

My work history? I have the seat you want, at a company I'm sure you would love to work for.

I'll offer this piece of advice, I'm sure you won't listen since I'm older than 25, try to stay as anonymous as possible on these boards. Some majors require a recommendation, can be a positive one or a negative one. Make sure that attitude of yours comes out in the interview process, it will be big plus for you.

 

[BoilerUP]

I'm sure you won't listen since I'm older than 25

At least you haven't changed your MO...

Thanks for the advice; it is sound and I do appreciate it. That said, a few people on this board know me (a fair amount at where my 'dream job' is) and I'm 100% confident I won't be negatively judged by them when I ask for recommendations based upon my opinion regarding the Age 60 rule.

Have a nice weekend..

 

[Jim Smyth]

Rules and laws are just that. Made up and put into place for current time frame they serve. The age 60 law went into effect in 1959. It was put into place by Americans CEO to get rid of his trouble maker senior Pilots. No medical facts or studies were used to come up with this number. It was just back doored into law! Fair back then, I think not!

That was 47 years ago. Peoples life expectancies have gone way up since then. The rule needs to change again to fit the current times with more and more people living into there 100's. To tie it into the Social security and Medicare age limits would be the wise thing to do. Is it fair to younger/junior/furloughed Pilots.....NO. Was it fair to my Dads generation of Pilots back in 1959......No. Will in change someday.....Yes. It has to, it is inevitable!

As more benefits are taken away like Pensions, Age to collect Social Security and Medicare, lost/lower wages etc, people will all have to work longer as to not tap into the system so that the money goes farther for those who truly didn't save for retirement. All your turns will come and the smart A$$ comments regarding ex-wives, second houses, fast sports cars, kids education ect, you will all get your turn to make sure you don't get stuck into that same trap. Try flying multiple day trips away from home for 30+ years and see how it effects your family life, marriage, finances. I think the term "walk a mile in my shoes applies here" and you will all get your turn. Good luck in this area and remember that absence doesn't always make the heart grow fonder!

So age 65 is coming to an Airline near you? If not this year maybe next year or the next year after that. It wont be long now and this year is the best chance it has had so far. If/when it changes and you don't like it you can always still leave at 60 if you wish. But I think your tune will change when that time comes.

 

[scarface]

less fun=less safe? I hope this has been brought to the FAAs and NTSBs attention.

 

[Phaedrus]

Attempting to get a reasonable, organized, logical response from the pro-change crowd is akin digging yourself out of a pit. Let it go.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

DOT not accepting dissenting opinions on keeping age 60

Posted on the UAL board by a pilot - easy instructions on how to comment:
Easy way to comment on Age 60
https://dms.dot.gov/submit/
Page one
click continue
Page two
enter docket no 26139
enter operating administration FAA
enter docket existence does exist
enter submitter information
click continue
Page 3
enter your comments
enter submit
If you read the comments, it looks like the pro-change crowd has been able to rally the troops and 'get out the vote.' They are much more organized with APAAD and PPF. It looks like they've been able to send the message to their members, trying to keep it off of the radar screen for us younger pups. Great work, PVB BEACH.

I have followed the above instructions and my comments wanting to keep age 60 as it is has not been posted after three days. And after looking at over 100 of the comments, I find no comments wanting to keep age 60 as it is being posted.

I think the DOT is trying to get only pro change comments.

 

[lostplnetairman]

Read more closely, luckytohaveajob. There are several comments posted in the nine pages of responses that favor keeping the rule as is. There is one that alleges that older pilots with whom he has flown are slow; there is one from an Alaska Capt that alleges that it would be unsafe to change it; there is another that complains about the grueling schedule taking a toll on your health. There are many more.

The latest of the 449 comments is from 10/25. They are all reviewed before posting. So, have a bit of patience in addition to reading more closely before claiming a conspiracy!

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Your are right

Read more closely, luckytohaveajob. There are several comments posted in the nine pages of responses that favor keeping the rule as is. There is one that alleges that older pilots with whom he has flown are slow; there is one from an Alaska Capt that alleges that it would be unsafe to change it; there is another that complains about the grueling schedule taking a toll on your health. There are many more.

The latest of the 449 comments is from 10/25. They are all reviewed before posting. So, have a bit of patience in addition to reading more closely before claiming a conspiracy!

Out of the first 234 posts I have found TWO wanting age 60 to remain as it is. It is not a conspiracy just total apathy on the part of those wanting it to remain unchanged.

 

[MECH]

The worst part about the change in the age 60 rule, is 5 more years of no holidays with my family.

 

[ERJFO]

I don't get it. Why would I want to end the career of an experienced pilot just to move up one seniority number.

Unity! (until it serves my purpose)

Alot of 1's add up...