DOT Awards Polar Air Cargo Four Additional China Frequencies

[bman]

First off,its "ALPA",not "ALPO" contrary to how you might feel about the organization. And you're wrong when you say there is no alternative to ALPA representation. You can always vote in the Teamsters,I guess. Don't know much about the one way or the other,but I seem to get the impression that they do a pretty good job for the Airborne Express pilots. Any Airborne guys or gals care to chime in?

PHXFLYR

K,

Its kinda funny when you chastise a guy for purposefully calling something a different name and then justify that name in your rebutal. Association? Organization? anything but a UNION (in the serious, blue collar, working man, we're all in this together, kind of sense). That's where we lost it!

 

[PHXFLYR]

Ok,then Lindbergh...what would you call it?

PHXFLYR

 

[treetopflyer]

i would call it pathetic.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Seems like you don't want to move beyond your non-union, non sked mindset. Oh,well ...enjoy your pissin' contest with the Polar and/or Atlas guys.


PHXFLYR

 

[cfire]

Hmmm,

Atlas and Polar are both separate union (ALPA) councils and Polar is a separate scheduled airline and company from Atlas. One is just more union than the other by having risked their jobs for the benefit of the other if they only had a picket line up, which included Atlas not flying their totally seperate customers outside of Polar.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when was the last time, lets say US Air refused to go to work when someone like Eastern, TWA or any other carrier was picketing at the same airport?

We did it at Atlas for Polar's benefit and now have a court precedence via one of the temporary restraining orders issued during that period. Get a copy of the TRO at Polar Behaving Badly. Of course, it has not provided us any positive recognition by the Polar group. They got the same amount of money that was on the table before the strike. It was just shaken up and put into different piles of distribution to various sections of the contract. So they choose to say we were the problem and refuse to look back at the verifiable history, not the Polar MEC Bobb Henderson recreation of it.

 

[furloughfodder]

I think there is a slight difference between Eastern flying pax for TWA versus Atlas flying cargo for Polar. Eastern and TWA are two separate companies. Polar and Atlas are owned by the same holding company. All of our pay checks come from Atlas Worldwide Holdings. We use the same website to check our schedules, bid, and do payroll. We are essentially the same company. The only thing in common between Eastern and TWA or Delta and American, etc, is that they fly people around.

Why is there no mention on your website about the clause in your contract that says you do NOT have to cross ANY picket line, ever. For the life of me, I will never understand why a group of pilots that have a provision written in their contract that tells them not to cross a picket line, crossed en masse during the Polar strike.

The only defense that the Atlas guys have for crossing the Polar picket lines, is they claim, “If Atlas were to have gone on strike a few years ago, we are sure that Polar would have picked up our flying.” Of course we will never know the answer to this question because the Atlas pilots caved in to management in the 11th hour of their last contract negations and accepted the worst contract imaginable.

Atlas will always be remembered as the company who sold their brothers down the river, even though they had a contract that gave them the perfect out...they chose to cross. It doesn’t matter how many websites you put together to try to convince the aviation community you were justified in crossing the Polar picket lines, people will always see through your lies and deceit.

 

[B-atch]

uke: CFIRE.....You seem to have POLITICIAN like qualities.... CROOKED and DISTORTED.....Havent you relized yet that NOBODY CARES...Keep pissing in the wind MORON!!.......Wy don't you try and get your'self a GIRLFRIEND. Perhaps she can keep you busy doing OTHER things and you can spare us all of you'r BS propaganda.......If that doesn't work...Try getting a "BOYFRIEND"...Whatever works for YOU!!

 

[cfire]

I think there is a slight difference between Eastern flying pax for TWA versus Atlas flying cargo for Polar. Eastern and TWA are two separate companies. Polar and Atlas are owned by the same holding company. All of our pay checks come from Atlas Worldwide Holdings. We use the same website to check our schedules, bid, and do payroll. We are essentially the same company. The only thing in common between Eastern and TWA or Delta and American, etc, is that they fly people around.

Why is there no mention on your website about the clause in your contract that says you do NOT have to cross ANY picket line, ever. For the life of me, I will never understand why a group of pilots that have a provision written in their contract that tells them not to cross a picket line, crossed en masse during the Polar strike.

The only defense that the Atlas guys have for crossing the Polar picket lines, is they claim, “If Atlas were to have gone on strike a few years ago, we are sure that Polar would have picked up our flying.” Of course we will never know the answer to this question because the Atlas pilots caved in to management in the 11th hour of their last contract negations and accepted the worst contract imaginable.

Atlas will always be remembered as the company who sold their brothers down the river, even though they had a contract that gave them the perfect out...they chose to cross. It doesn’t matter how many websites you put together to try to convince the aviation community you were justified in crossing the Polar picket lines, people will always see through your lies and deceit.

Apparently, you enjoy selectively choosing when we are the same company and when we are not despite the real legalities of it. Very close to what your MEC does. Like when Polar MEC Bob Fell decided to vounteer the Polar membership to scab Atlas if we were released by the NMB. That is verifiable by a third party, but Bobb Henderson doesn't want to address that during the last "Getting all the liars in the same room" meeting that was conducted. As a matter of fact, Bob Fell left the room when the third party showed up to counter what he said to the group and give witness of what he said in the 11th hour. Were we the same company then or not! In your next breath, you say we are together when Polar has everything to gain and nothing more to lose. It always changes depending on what Polar has to gain. There are a number of examples of that. It really doesn't matter, it's what is legal that counts not what your MEC thinks is legal or right. The latter never being a strong point of the Polar MEC. I can even explain it, but I would be wasting my time and webspace. If you are still pay ALPA dues why don't you call legal and ask them?

The ALPA National lawyers advised us in the body of the judges TRO that it affords us the right to not cross any picket now if properly formed. Of course you and your Polar MEC are much smarter about such things. I'll roll my dice with the lawyers instead of what the Polar MEC say's.

Hope that job search is going well.

uke: CFIRE.....You seem to have POLITICIAN like qualities.... CROOKED and DISTORTED.....Havent you relized yet that NOBODY CARES...Keep pissing in the wind MORON!!.......Wy don't you try and get your'self a GIRLFRIEND. Perhaps she can keep you busy doing OTHER things and you can spare us all of you'r BS propaganda.......If that doesn't work...Try getting a "BOYFRIEND"...Whatever works for YOU!! Today 02:04

Sounds like you have a little extra time on your hands. Probably because you are another furloughed Polar guy. Don't worry, the industry knows your coming. Your reputation preceeds you. Good luck on that McDonalds interview.

 

[mar]

Get over it already

For the life of me, I will never understand why a group of pilots that have a provision written in their contract that tells them not to cross a picket line, crossed en masse during the Polar strike.

Neither of you who continue to bicker almost one year later are doing any of us any favors.

Let me remind furloughfodder why Atlas flew:

1) We never had the luxury of a strike vote
2) The judge ordered Atlas to fly.

See? No rhetoric. No lies. Just facts....almost one year later....

 

[ABOVE ME]

All I will say is fodder and beeeeatch are spot on. PERIOD !

 

[Whale Rider]

Hope everyone is enjoying thier Labor Day Weekend! I know I am...:beer:

 

[cfire]

All I will say is fodder and beeeeatch are spot on. PERIOD !

Which explains why Polar is loosing all of their arbitrations with the holding company and on the merger arbitration with the Atlas membership.

The Polar MEC have lied so much that they have begun to believe what they have been saying to the Polar membership. Unfortunately, they have been saying the same in the arbitrations. The arbitors, documented proof, along with witnesses say otherwise at the arbitrations. So much so, the arbitor had to restate to the Polar MEC that it is lucky that this is a civil arbitration and not a criminal proceeding in which perjury is not punishable by a jail sentence but reflected in his decision.

You guys just keep on believing old Bobb Henderson and company.

 

[furloughfodder]

Like when Polar MEC Bob Fell decided to vounteer [sic] the Polar membership to scab Atlas if we were released by the NMB.

Here you go again, justifying crossing the Polar picket lines because of something that happened 4 years ago. Again, please let me remind you, NO POLAR PILOT has ever OR WILL EVER SCAB. You have no idea what would have happened IF you had gone on strike four years ago...because you DIDN'T GO ON STRIKE! You caved in to managements tricks.

Let me remind furloughfodder why Atlas flew:

1) We never had the luxury of a strike vote
2) The judge ordered Atlas to fly.

See? No rhetoric. No lies. Just facts....almost one year later....

You need to go back and re-read the judges orders. He specifically UPHELD the portion of your contract that states you NEVER have to cross a picket line. Go check it. You guys all crossed the line to better yourselves, and maybe pick up a little overtime in the process.

See the top of PAGE 9 of the judges ruling here:

http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.cpt747/TRO2.pdf

Now those are the facts mar. How soon we forget....

 

[cfire]

Here you go again, justifying crossing the Polar picket lines because of something that happened 4 years ago. Again, please let me remind you, NO POLAR PILOT has ever OR WILL EVER SCAB. You have no idea what would have happened IF you had gone on strike four years ago...because you DIDN'T GO ON STRIKE! You caved in to managements tricks.

Lucky you that we chickened out. Otherwise you would of had some hard decisions to make. Your MEC at the time had already volunteered you to scab. Nice of him to tell us about 15 minutes before our release. Obviously he never told you.

You need to go back and re-read the judges orders. He specifically UPHELD the portion of your contract that states you NEVER have to cross a picket line. Go check it. You guys all crossed the line to better yourselves, and maybe pick up a little overtime in the process.

See the top of PAGE 9 of the judges ruling here:

http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.cpt747/TRO2.pdf

Now those are the facts mar. How soon we forget....

You are correct, but not in the way you think. MAR was right and you are wrong again.

Fodder, you need to go back and read all the orders. The first one of the the three temporary restraining orders Click here for TRO #1 bottom of page 4 to page 5 says it. Told the ATLAS MEC everyone had to work and not engage in any work action. Like normal at Polar, you chose to use only what you want in your arguments that works for you and not the whole thing that tells it all. Just like in your current arbitrations with the company and council 072. The arbitors have already seen through that already.

I guess that is what you get when you let Bobb Henderson tell you what is going on.

TRO #1 said go back to work and do not instigate any work action as we were doing at the time for Polar. Later TRO #2 upheld our rights not to cross legal picket lines along with other stuff. TRO #3 was really only a continuation of #2 after it's expiration. Maybe you didn't realize that there were 3 TRO's. Judging from your MEC's VARS I don't doubt it.

Thanks for using the site though fodder since you can't provide any of your own proof. Your word means soo much. It's good to see Polar membership using the Polar Behaving Badly site to get the truth. Would you like me to put up Polar MEC Chairman Bobb Hendersons emails calling us scabs about a month prior to your release to strike? I've got alot of other stuff and since some of it was outed during the recent arbitrations between us. I think I can do that without getting sued since it is now on public record.

Well, I'm off to go clean the doves I shot on this holiday weekend. Got my limit.

 

[furloughfodder]

Like I said...

See the top of PAGE 9 of the judges ruling here:

http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.cpt747/TRO2.pdf

 

[cfire]

Like I said...

See the top of PAGE 9 of the judges ruling here:

http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.cpt747/TRO2.pdf

I have. A few times.

You seem to be applying your own timeline to the events again.

Atlas did a sympathy strike which resulted in a court order TRO#1 telling us to go to work flying anything Atlas scheduled. Quantas, Emirates, Air New Zealand, Polar and others. A number of days later, another TRO (#2) was issued upholding our right to not cross any legal picket line. Then a number of days later a third one was issued extending the seconds ones expiration date.

Bobb Henderson, Polar MEC Chairman, chose to recognize only the second TRO to his membership and applied it to every situation to his benefit. The bad thing is you can't choose which one to comply with especially when it was ordered against the Atlas union. You have to do it in the order issued also. Bobb withheld that info from his membership and essentially lied to his membership since it didn't conflict with any court order made upon the Atlas membership and made him look better to his own membership. He couldn't beat that. At least not until later rulings by ALPA and the mediation boards.

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

Enough Already!!!

YAWNuke:

 

[cfire]

YAWNuke:

I agree. All old news and not what the Polar guys want to hear.