Don't Swear at Crew Scheduling

[shooter]

Some of us work 12 hour shifts, and live 45 minutes away from work...

2.5 hour round trip commute...but I only have that 10 hour shift gig. But my working graveyard 2 on 1 off 2 on 2 off REALLY makes up for that.

It has been getting worse, not better. But I hope that gets to smooth out. As it was said earlier...we all have our crosses.

 

[whaleroast]

Do all schedulers wear do-rags, smoke cigarettes and class up a court room?

 

[Tristar]

That story occurred back when I worked at ATA, so I guess the problem has been resolved (just not in the fashion I would have desired).

Wow.. I think most of here on this thread are dispatchers, and we deal with MX and scheduling as required hearing some of these type of stories but on a domestic basis.. sounds like your airline needs some real management upgrades, maybe a crew coordinator like Airtran has and others.. this person deals only in these issues of crew hours, propper rest, tail swaps and and anticipation of crew needs in certain troubled part of the route structure.. but usually only between 4 time zones at most 5..

I thought we supposedly did have someone with that title, but I could be mistaken. It was always a source of perverse amusement on our part - they built this (allegedly) state of the art scheduling/dispatch/MX control center at the headquarters, with the supervisors/coordinators of each area on a raised platform with their desks near each other. The concept was all they had to do was speak to the person next to them to keep tabs on and coordinate what was happening in the system. Most of the time it still didn't work - dispatch had no idea what MX was doing with a problem, and scheduling was completely out of the loop. Most of the time the crews in the field knew more about what was going on, because we'd use our cell phone (or the ops reps phone overseas) and call each department when things were falling apart!

Your example is brutal, and just stupidity on the company part.. your tried to do your part, but the people with the big picture missed the boat with you..

I often heard that term, but I really question if they had the big picture or not. I know they think they did (and sometimes I'm sure they did), but often I think there is (was) the old attitude of "not invented here." In other words, if they (scheduling, dispatch, MX, management, whoever) didn't have the idea, it must not be a good one. In the case of my little nightmare story, I'd been there at least five years at that point. I knew there was a very high chance of being needed east of 30W in the next week, but no one bothered to consider my input. It's not just me, there were many occasions where the crews in the field had better ideas or ways to save money, but those ideas didn't fit into the box of "how we usually do things," so they wouldn't get approved (or even considered).

The airline business has been disorganized for along time as staffing levels drop and rookies take over the desks, much experience has walked out the doors that should have been captured and turning into procedures and policies.. it saves eveyone money aggravation and sleep!.. BUt as well all know the baest laid and thought out plans can go miss with the unexpected happens, like a broke plane, or weather that turns out to last longer or be more sever than forcasted.. so we all are scrambling around to keep schedules intact and people flowing through the system..

This is absolutely correct! I personally know of two individuals (on two separate occasions) who were positioned from the mainland to Hawaii to reposition aircraft from Honolulu to Hickam AFB (for those of you who aren't aware, they are the same airport, Hickam being at the west end thereof. Aircraft which need to be repositioned are towed from one location to the other). On one occasion the individual being called for the trip tried to ask the scheduler "You don't really want me to do that do you?" Before he could explain the situation, the scheduler responded with "Are you refusing the trip?!?" Properly chastened, he responded "No, I'll do it..."

About ten hours later, he gets off the flight to HNL, multiple messages on his phone from the scheduling supervisor to call ASAP. The conversation went something like this:
S- "Where are you?"
C- "HNL, where you sent me."
S- "You didn't really go did you?"
C- "Yes, your scheduler was very clear I was to position to HNL. You can pull the tapes if you'd like..."
S- "Oh Crap. Well, go to the hotel, we'll position you back home tomorrow."

Stupid mistakes like this (again costing thousand of dollars in airfares and crew costs) wouldn't happen if companies would hire quality people and pay them enough to stick around.

The original poster here must have more to this story than we know about to have his/her job at stake for swearing at someone..

I don't know who the OP works for, but I think you are giving WAY to much credit to Flight Ops Management. There are some good ones out there who are fair, but there are a LOT of people doing that job who are in it primarily to brown nose their way as far up the management pay scale as possible. They will gleefully throw a crew member under the bus (or at least try) if they think it will ingratiate them to the higher ups. Fairness and what's right have nothing to do with it.

 

[onewithwings]

I've always tried to encourage my employers to require pilots observe an operation for a few hours a year, just as dispatchers have to spend 5 hours a year in the cockpit doing fam rides. If we are legally both responsible for 121 flights it makes sense to me that they watch and learn why we do what we do, and the obstacles that pop that they may have no idea exist.

BINGO!!! I've been harping on that for years! You know what their response is? The company would have to pay the pilots for their time and it's not a requirement of the FAA nor their collective bargaining agreement.

However there are a small few who do come sit with me for a portion of the shift. Those that have observed have a a huge respect for our job.

My previous life included a short stint as a crew scheduler. We were NEVER allowed to call crews on rest. Additionally, you need to have respect to get respect.

 

[PsubS]

Fair enough--multiple "crosses to bear" makes sense.

For what it's worth, folks, this is one of the more instructive and CERTAINLY one of the most civil discussions found on FI.

Thanks for redeeming the site!

 

[Mr Wu]

BINGO!!! I've been harping on that for years! You know what their response is? The company would have to pay the pilots for their time and it's not a requirement of the FAA nor their collective bargaining agreement.

However there are a small few who do come sit with me for a portion of the shift. Those that have observed have a a huge respect for our job.

My previous life included a short stint as a crew scheduler. We were NEVER allowed to call crews on rest. Additionally, you need to have respect to get respect.

I don't have a problem sitting in and watching what your job entails but if I have to do it, do I then get to pick what days and flights you do your yearly fam rides? I've never seen a dispatcher on a flight longer than 90 mins and the weather has always been CAVU.

 

[WarnerNo13]

I don't have a problem sitting in and watching what your job entails but if I have to do it, do I then get to pick what days and flights you do your yearly fam rides? I've never seen a dispatcher on a flight longer than 90 mins and the weather has always been CAVU.

There's always a reason why pilots have it worse than anyone else, so this is a familiar theme. Who said a fam ride has to have deadly tornadoes and has to be 5 hours one way? The point is to OBSERVE how a pilot works to apply that knowledge back at the office and learn to make better decisions since joint authority applies to every flight. If a dispatcher has a 30 year career, they've spent a few days in the cockpit. How long did you spend in dispatch educating yourself on how to work better with operations control and your local neighborhood 'spatcher?

If you want to use the the woe-is-me approach, how about I get to pick which of my 70 flights that day I get to be responsible for?

 

[WalterSobchak]

Tristar, I think we are definitely on the same page. I shouldn't throw the "overinflated sense of self-importance" around, but we all know those kinds exist. I was exaggerating a bit. Apologies if you felt that was directed at you, personally. It was not.

I don't have a problem sitting in and watching what your job entails but if I have to do it, do I then get to pick what days and flights you do your yearly fam rides? I've never seen a dispatcher on a flight longer than 90 mins and the weather has always been CAVU.

I go out of my way to find crappy weather observation rides. However, in my case, it is hard to find one when you're dealing with weight-restricted CRJ's. You take what you can get. I do try to at least go to our more restrictive airports like KASE, KSUN, KJAC, etc. when possible. I'll never forget my CAT II ride into KATL, nor will I forget the opportunity I had to fly the CRJ sim in/out of some of our toughest airports...not to mention my commute on F9 into a stormy KDFW. Those flights changed the way I dispatch flights...which is exactly the point of observation.

Fair enough--multiple "crosses to bear" makes sense.

For what it's worth, folks, this is one of the more instructive and CERTAINLY one of the most civil discussions found on FI.

Thanks for redeeming the site!

Thanks for the kind words.

With all due respect to the pilots on the forum, I think the civility found in the dispatch section is just a byproduct the nature of our jobs. In our careers, we are all expected to see and understand the big-picture in addition to the details...as opposed to the "single mission" mindset of a pilot (which is exactly the mindset a pilot should have). I think that typically results in a carry-over of that mindset to our everyday lives and into our message boards. The Dispatch Community is a small one...and we're almost all willing to help people better understand what we do and why we do it.

well it did take two moderator/dispatchers to make that happen.. see we can get along..

Speaking of...what happened to PullToGuns?