Dont pay taxes

[mangmntsuks]

I want to get a some opinions from those of you who are politically savy as well as those of you who know a lot about tax law.

I have recently come to know someone who hasnt payed income taxes in 10 years. He has begun to educate me on why and I must say that I am convinced he is right. Aparently there are some 40 million Americans who dont pay income taxes. I dont know if thats just children and illegal immigrants or what. But I am convinced that the IRS is a fraudulent and illegal agency as per our constitution. I am also convinced that there is no law in the Internal Revenue Code (if you even consider that this is law in the first place) that says people must pay income taxes.

I will give just a little more info as to what I am talking about. The IRS falls under the Executive branch of government. But Taxes are imposed by congress who fall under the Legislative branch. There is a document/act or something that says one branch cannot designate duties to another branch.

Another reason we dont know about this is because the law is so confusing and the people who give advice on tax law are certified BY THE GOVERNMENT ie. lawers CPA's etc.

When we fill out our w-4 form which is called a withholding Allowance Certificate, we are "allowing" money to be withheld unless we put exempt. The government cannot force us to pay, but they can ask us which is what the w-4 does. The other part of this is that the government cannot force an employer to be a "withholding agency." The employer is not being compensated for doing the dirty work of the federal government.

I have a lot of little points to make but my understanding of all this is still very rough. Im not usually one to be into conspiracy theories and all that but this stuff is hitting me like a ton of bricks and I wanted to hear from anyone else who has heard the same stuff or has a good understanding of it. Before you call me crazy, do a little research. I will try to post more information depending on the responses.

 

[skeezer]

I got a question for ya. I know the IRS isn't the most efficient part of our government, but without paying taxes how can we afford our military protection, Social Security, medicare, etc?

Yeah it stinks having money taken out of my measly paycheck, and having to fil out insanely complicated forms but I am more than happy to do it since it helps this country survive.

Why should you be so important that you don't need to contribute your part to society?

Respectfully,

Skeezer

 

[jethro]

Brilliant idea! I'm all for it; that way I don't have to pay to bail your s**t airlines out and fund your unemployment benefits which you'll be collecting soon.

 

[Andy Neill]

mangmntsuks:

How do you feel about the 16th Amendment to the US Constitution? The text of that amendment is given below in full:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census of enumeration. "

 

[chawbein]

The solution is simple.

FLAT TAX

Take the same percentage from everybody (unless you are in poverty). No forms, no returns, no stupid-@ss deductions for owning a hybrid car, no BS. Everybody pays an equal share, and tax revenues rise. It's about the closest thing to a zero-sum gain that there is. The only losers are those shmucks at the IRS. I have no problem paying taxes as long as I feel that there is some value in return for what I paid. I do have a problem with having a portion STOLEN from me at GUNPOINT in order to pay for a large and inefficient government.

 

[Timebuilder]

Every year these people who pay no tax pop up on talk radio.

While they talk a good game, I would not try this. There are a whole host of tools available to the IRS to ensure compliance, including filing false forms (w-4, 1040, etc) making false statements to agents of the government, making false statements to encourage others to violate fedaral law, and that's just the beginning. The mere fact that someone is able to get away with this for ten years is not an indication that the givernment looks casually on this.

This belief is very popular in some circles, and falls into the general area of ideas about things like the federal reserve system (which is NOT federal, and there are NO reserves), the social security system (the SS act says that your SS number cannot be used for identifiction.....yeah, right...look at your IRS forms...) or the United Nations (do you know that we no longer have soverieign control over the Statue of Liberty?).

This argument being made by your friend no doubt contains MANY parts that are TRUE, but those parts do not assemble together into not paying your income tax.

 

[pilotyip]

Know a guy

yea, I know a guy who believed that stuff about taxes being illegal. Was a major Captain, got caught. IRS took every thing from him expect one car, transport special. The IRS was then going to take all of his income, expect a limited amount needed to live on, to the pay back taxes and interest. He quit his major job and went to Africa, however half his airline in Africa was shot down and the pilots killed so he came back to the US, drives a cab, says why earn more IRS just takes it.

 

[ceo_of_the_sofa]

every fawkin day yew fewls fall for a different trollin bastid...

 

[ms6073]

I want to get a some opinions from those of you who are politically savy as well as those of you who know a lot about tax law.

I have recently come to know someone who hasnt payed income taxes in 10 years. He has begun to educate me on why and I must say that I am convinced he is right. Aparently there are some 40 million Americans who dont pay income taxes. I dont know if thats just children and illegal immigrants or what. But I am convinced that the IRS is a fraudulent and illegal agency as per our constitution. I am also convinced that there is no law in the Internal Revenue Code (if you even consider that this is law in the first place) that says people must pay income taxes.

read this: Author of 'Voluntary' Income Tax Theories Sued for Millions

and this: Irwin Schiff’s Theories About the Federal Income Tax

Whether or not you buy into this is up to you but consider this, guys like Irwin Shiff (popular advocate of "Zero Income Tax Returns") have made substantial incomes based on revenues from the sale of there literature on the subject. If the IRS decides to focus there guns on these types of organziations, they typically have the capital that allows them to hire good attorneys and mount a suitable legal defense in Federal court. Do you have several hundred thousand dollars to do the same?

How about this? If you subscribe to this ideology and the IRS comes after you, dont think that they wont want to let the FAA know that you are advocating such theories. Worst case scenario, not only could you end up in a legal battle with the IRS, but the FAA Regional Flight surgeon can and will have you explaining your position on taxes to a Mental health professional who is charged with determining your mental competence and fitness for continued medical certification with regard to why you ascribe to behaviors that are clearly not compliant with widely accepted social norms.

Do yourself a favor, take a neutral approach - do some more research on the topic - the links above were derived from 30-seconds of searching with Google. Finally, balance the facts for yourself and your family. If you feel the rewards outweigh the risks then go for it!

 

[Birdstrike]

I feel your pain at paying income taxes but skip filing altogether? Bad idea. Why risk antagonizing the ruthless b**tards at the IRS? Once you get on their radar screen, you never get off. You have to choose your battles. Sure, you'd probably get away with it for a few years but eventually you'd get caught; likely by a friend or neighbor rightly peeved at the idea of somebody not paying their fair share. Pay up and sleep well at night.

 

[Vardog]

Income Taxes

Give to Rome what is Rome's

 

[Timebuilder]

I like that avatar!!!!!!

 

[Vardog]

Avatar

this is a picture of me on april 15'th last year. this year i'm adding C4.

 

[surfnole]

A guaranteed way to make everyone a tax cut proponent and an advocate of smaller government is to do away with the withholding from paychecks.

Can you imagine how many people would be screaming for tax cuts if they had to write a check every month for taxes, FICA etc, just like they pay their rent or car payment.

The system is too painless now. We never even see the money we pay for taxes.

 

[lahso]

Dont get me started on taxes...

I have a friend who didn't file his taxes for only 4 yrs. To make a long story short, he had an option to either pay all back taxes, penalties and interest he owed within 30 days, or to not pass go, not collect his $200 dollars and go directly....

As a self-employed individual out there, I personaly think that taxes are way worse for us. Our employer doesn't take the money out, I have to pay the IRS every 3 months... a lot of money. And if I dont, they charge me interest and penalties. At least you dont have to think about putting aside a percentage of each check so you can pay them. Also, your employers pay half of your social security tax for you, I get to pay all of mine. At least social security wont even be around by the time I get old enough to collect it.

Yep, I love taxes. I'm not saying that they shouldn't exist, the system is just wrong right now and it needs to be reformed. But what doesn't?

 

[mangmntsuks]

Wow this is gonna be fun.

Look everybody...I still pay taxes. But Im beginning to wonder why I let the government have my money when they are not following the LAW.

Thats right...the LAW. Forget feelings. Forget paying your "fair share." What is the LAW?

Answer?......there is no law that says we must pay. I double dog dare anyone to SHOW ME THE LAW.

Just because we have all been brainwashed for decades into thinking that it is our Constitutional duty to pay income tax and Social security tax (notice I say specifically "income" and Social security) doesnt meen its right. Lets open our minds and think outside of the box for a minute. I can tell that you all think that someone who doesnt pay their taxes is not being fair to the rest of us. But who cares about fair. I care about what is the LAW and what is right.

A Flat Tax is a better idea in my opinion also, but really you are just taking one illegal tax, and calling it something else which is also illegal.

Excise taxes are legal. These are the internal taxes on the production or consumption of certain products like tobacco and alchohol. The consumer would then have a choice as to wether or not they want to buy this product.

Think of how much more productive this country would be if people could keep everything they earned. What other country has this form of government you may ask? None. The good ol USA was supposed to be the one. Thats why Sam Adams and Thomas Jefferson and all those guys fought for our independence. They didnt like people telling them what to do and how to do it so they took a stance.

This is just a discussion so dont kill the messenger. Im just saying look at the law and read some books by Irwin Shiff or whoever. They have some great points. Like I said before, Im still just learning about all this but its really fascinating.

 

[mckpickle]

mangmntsuks, WOW you have opened my eyes!! I never realized this before. Hey on another issue I have this really cool bridge in Brooklyn that I'm looking for investers on, I just need 500$ and we're in! Cash or check is fine, what ever you got!

Oh ya ever hear of Al Capone? All the things he did, and look what he got pinched for.

 

[Tim47SIP]

[B]mangmntsuks:[/B]

Answer?......there is no law that says we must pay. I double dog dare anyone to SHOW ME THE LAW.

Well, just was wondering about this statemet. I know it only say's "Taxes" but I would think that would encompass a mariad of "Taxes".

How do you feel about the 16th Amendment to the US Constitution? The text of that amendment is given below in full:
"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census of enumeration. "

What am I missing?

 

[slapstick]

i read somewhere that for every 2 dollars we give to the government in taxes, they put 1 dollar of it to use. The rest falls through the cracks...

 

[mangmntsuks]

How do you feel about the 16th Amendment to the US Constitution? The text of that amendment is given below in full:

Tim47SIP,

This is why its wrong. "CONGRESS" can lay and collect taxes but it cannot designate the the IRS to do it. Like I said before: Congress falls under the Legisdlative Branch, and the Department of Justice which controls the IRS falls under the Executive Branch. The Separation of Powers Doctrine says that one branch cannot designate duties to another branch.

I can see that Im getting nowhere with anyone here. Why is it that there were no income taxes before the 1940's? Did anyone sign anything that allows the Gov. to take out Social Security?

Look, if im right, then we are all living a lie. And we lynch ourselves because as soon as someone even presents this idea there are 20 people who call him crazy. If everyone at least knew this information, maybe we would stop supporting the gov throwing people in jail for it. The people who know this dont go to jail.