Dont pay taxes

[mangmntsuks]

Wow this is gonna be fun.

Look everybody...I still pay taxes. But Im beginning to wonder why I let the government have my money when they are not following the LAW.

Thats right...the LAW. Forget feelings. Forget paying your "fair share." What is the LAW?

Answer?......there is no law that says we must pay. I double dog dare anyone to SHOW ME THE LAW.

Just because we have all been brainwashed for decades into thinking that it is our Constitutional duty to pay income tax and Social security tax (notice I say specifically "income" and Social security) doesnt meen its right. Lets open our minds and think outside of the box for a minute. I can tell that you all think that someone who doesnt pay their taxes is not being fair to the rest of us. But who cares about fair. I care about what is the LAW and what is right.

A Flat Tax is a better idea in my opinion also, but really you are just taking one illegal tax, and calling it something else which is also illegal.

Excise taxes are legal. These are the internal taxes on the production or consumption of certain products like tobacco and alchohol. The consumer would then have a choice as to wether or not they want to buy this product.

Think of how much more productive this country would be if people could keep everything they earned. What other country has this form of government you may ask? None. The good ol USA was supposed to be the one. Thats why Sam Adams and Thomas Jefferson and all those guys fought for our independence. They didnt like people telling them what to do and how to do it so they took a stance.

This is just a discussion so dont kill the messenger. Im just saying look at the law and read some books by Irwin Shiff or whoever. They have some great points. Like I said before, Im still just learning about all this but its really fascinating.

 

[mckpickle]

mangmntsuks, WOW you have opened my eyes!! I never realized this before. Hey on another issue I have this really cool bridge in Brooklyn that I'm looking for investers on, I just need 500$ and we're in! Cash or check is fine, what ever you got!

Oh ya ever hear of Al Capone? All the things he did, and look what he got pinched for.

 

[Tim47SIP]

[B]mangmntsuks:[/B]

Answer?......there is no law that says we must pay. I double dog dare anyone to SHOW ME THE LAW.

Well, just was wondering about this statemet. I know it only say's "Taxes" but I would think that would encompass a mariad of "Taxes".

How do you feel about the 16th Amendment to the US Constitution? The text of that amendment is given below in full:
"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census of enumeration. "

What am I missing?

 

[slapstick]

i read somewhere that for every 2 dollars we give to the government in taxes, they put 1 dollar of it to use. The rest falls through the cracks...

 

[mangmntsuks]

How do you feel about the 16th Amendment to the US Constitution? The text of that amendment is given below in full:

Tim47SIP,

This is why its wrong. "CONGRESS" can lay and collect taxes but it cannot designate the the IRS to do it. Like I said before: Congress falls under the Legisdlative Branch, and the Department of Justice which controls the IRS falls under the Executive Branch. The Separation of Powers Doctrine says that one branch cannot designate duties to another branch.

I can see that Im getting nowhere with anyone here. Why is it that there were no income taxes before the 1940's? Did anyone sign anything that allows the Gov. to take out Social Security?

Look, if im right, then we are all living a lie. And we lynch ourselves because as soon as someone even presents this idea there are 20 people who call him crazy. If everyone at least knew this information, maybe we would stop supporting the gov throwing people in jail for it. The people who know this dont go to jail.

 

[bigsky]

after traveling extensively around the world I will never complain about paying taxes again- because we have got it sooo good here in the USA. I think your friend is an idiot and should be deported to Kabul!

 

[bestpilotever]

Does your friend that hasnt paid for 10 years do so thru the use of a UCC-1 financing statement? If so, his taxes are being paid! Just not by him. (Actually the word paid is a false statement. The US has been bankrupt since the early 30's when we went off the gold standard. The "money" you use is simply passing debt around.)

 

[mangmntsuks]

No my friend doesnt use a UCC-1 statement. There is no law that says you must file any form or statement.

You have a very good point about the gold standard. We ARE in debt and this is why inflation is so out of hand. The Gov. (dept. of Treas.) simply asks a private bank to print more money (Federal Reserve, there's nothing FEDERAL about it) then the government ows them interest on this money that really isnt valuable at all. Its just paper with nothing backing it. The federal reserve bank is owned by international bankers and rich families. The constitution does not provide for the printing of paper currency, only the coining of gold and silver.

So far nobody has given me any facts. Yeah it may seem like its better here than in other countries. But who wants to be like other countries. Keep in mind that we are only 225 years old. The whole reason for the American Revolution was so we didnt turn out like other countries. Its really easy to say you love your country, but its hard to take a stand and honor the Constitution.

I dont want to live anywhere else. I think the idea of the USA is the greatest thing in the world. But if nobody questions authority then the gov. can do anything they want.

My friend may be an idiot, but he can back up everything he says with numbered LAW. It has nothing to do with his feelings or the way we think it should be. Would anyone be interested if I had him right a few words on this forum?

 

[Vik]

Go live in some other country like India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and see what happens with all the taxes .. they go to a corrupt government.

What happens with taxes in the US? Your roads are maintained. You can call 911 and be reasonably sure to get some sort of response in a short amount of time vs. never in the countries mentioned above. You get a decent police force. Fire department. Clean streets, Street lighting, public education, etc.

As for those 40m Americans not paying taxes, I am sure it includes a lot of people not making over $8k/yr or is it $10k/yr where you don't have to file if you make that little.

Anyhow, grow up, take some responsibility and stop acting so childish.

 

[350DRIVER]

You must only do ONE thing in life that is a variable that you can't change and that would be that everyone must die at some point.!
Other than that.... do as you please, however lotsa good luck gettin away from NOT paying taxes. The IRS may not catch you for months possibly even years BUT they will catch you one day, some place, and some time and I would not wanna have to explain how some "super kool" pilot who told me that it is "illegal" to have to pay em so I didn't. " "


Funny in a way though



3 5 0

nice bridge in Brooklyn.?

 

[dispatchguy]

I never thought it coincidental that the first three letters in Congress spell the word "CON"

But, wanting to avoid becoming a prison bi!ch, I pay and pay and pay

 

[ms6073]

Wow this is gonna be fun.

Look everybody...I still pay taxes. But Im beginning to wonder why I let the government have my money when they are not following the LAW.

Thats right...the LAW. Forget feelings. Forget paying your "fair share." What is the LAW?

Answer?......there is no law that says we must pay. I double dog dare anyone to SHOW ME THE LAW.

Okay, maybe this whole thing is flame bait but with all the other things that are effecting the industry these days I am going to have to take exception - I am going to go off on this one!

Look here you dont want pay your taxes, fine!

Remeber that these days, the government has no qualms about indefinitely detaining Afghani prisoners at Guantanamo or arresting citizens on the premise that because they are of the Muslim faith and might have chosen to vacation in Afghanistan, then obviously they went to an Al Qaida training camps. The government has no sense of humor and these days it is not wise to be trying to make a name for yourself with a cuase like this.

I like many others that paricipate here am a verteran of the armed forces. I have fought in and seen my friends pay the ulitmate price during two separate conflicts so that once again, although indirectly, you can continue to affirm your consitutional rights to state whats on your mind. If you want to risk you and your families financial future (not too mention your freedom) on the advice of what appears to be a paranoid, delusional, conspiracy theorist, and convicted federal felon? Then you go right ahead - more power to you sir! But personally I think you need to pull your head out of your fourth point of contact as the view is clouding your judgement!

Right, wrong, whatever - as I mentioned previously, I feel reasonably assured that no one wants to risk the financial resources it might take to mount a suitable legal defense against the IRS/government in a case like this. Sure, we all would feel better if we paid less in taxes or none at all, but instead of looking for ways around the system, why not take a few more minutes and use the system by organizing your finances so that in the future it will pay you relatviely tax free?

 

[mangmntsuks]

You guys just arent getting it, which is proof as to how screwed up everything is.

I ask you to expand your mind and you say shut up and pay your taxes. I dont want to go live in India or Pakistan because they are way more f^&ked up than our country. But this country was never supposed to even come close to the way other countries were. A government for the people, of the people, and by the people. Isnt that what it was supposed to be. OUR government is corrupt guys. Hate to shed dark light on your false senses of security.

If we dont question and challenge our rights then we have none.

 

[Andy Neill]

I'm going to weigh in with mangmntsuks on this point only.

He is not arguing that taxes aren't a necessary element of government. He is arguing that income taxes collected by an Administrative agency of the federal government is wrong in a legal sense.

While I agree that that is the argument, I do not agree that the IRS does not have the legal authority to collect income taxes for the federal government. I believe that Congress has given them this authority through appropriate legislation as it used its COnstitutional Authority (16th Amendment) to do so.

 

[TXCAP4228]

WE are brainwashed???

...Look everybody...I still pay taxes. But Im beginning to wonder why I let the government have my money when they are not following the LAW.

Thats right...the LAW. Forget feelings. Forget paying your "fair share." What is the LAW?

Answer?......there is no law that says we must pay. I double dog dare anyone to SHOW ME THE LAW.

Wow, if you double dog dare me I guess I have to do it, huh?

The law may be found here.

Then, you say that the law is invalid because the Legislative branch of government can't have the executive branch of government do something? Here it is in your words:

This is why its wrong. "CONGRESS" can lay and collect taxes but it cannot designate the the IRS to do it. Like I said before: Congress falls under the Legisdlative Branch, and the Department of Justice which controls the IRS falls under the Executive Branch. The Separation of Powers Doctrine says that one branch cannot designate duties to another branch.

How do you figure that any law is enforced? The legilastive branch passes laws - the executive branch enforces them.

After that you say that the separation of powers doctrine says you can't deignate these duties to another branch. That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. You are wrong, The Consitution does NOT say that.

Here is what Article 1 Section 8 DOES say on this subject:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

and later on...

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Sounds like I'm not the one who has been brainwashed. Next time, try reading the Consitution and the law for yourself.

I hope this eliminates any confusion you may have. Have a good day.