DON'T give mesa guys a break

[Ben Franklin]

Don't give me your B.S. about "not knowing the specifics of the deal..." I am very aware of the specifics of your "deal" and how badly each and every mesa pilot who voted yes has ruined the piloting profession for a long time.

To every mesa pilot that voted yes:

-You have taken food out of my child's mouth.
-You have lowered the standard for all future pilot contracts.
-You continuously set a bad example for what ALPA should represent.
-You have looked out only for yourselves instead of the enitre industry as a whole.
-I hope that you DO try to take over the world. Your customers know better than you obviously that, "you get what you pay for". They will pay s**t, and they will get s**t from mesa and soon, they will go to an airline where pride matters.


I will never give mesa guys a break. They are selfish, they lack pride and they have put a black mark on the face of the airline industry.


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[350DRIVER]

I find it extremely comical that you actually wasted the time to type that, what a joke but thanks for the laugh.. (I need one every once in awhile)

Fortunately your views are not shared by very many, sometimes ignorance is good though since it provides a few of us a good laugh.

I will treat Mesa guys no different than anyone else who I come in contact with...

Very professional as well I must say....

what a joke-

3 5 0

 

[OneTuffGuy]

350Driver you are an idiot Mesa sucks we all know it. The only people who like are the ones who work or have worked for j.o. go figure. Funny thing is more people agree with Ben Franklin then you could even imagine. I may not agree with Ben on all posts but this one i am with him 100%. MESA SUCKS and so does everyone who whores themselves out to work at that crappy place.

even though mesa pilots will never agree i think you all would be shocked of how many passangers also hate flying on MESA or listening to your F/As stupid jokes and comments. You want unprofessional? look it up in the dictionary and it says "see mesa"

 

[350DRIVER]

I agree with you about the contract, I do not think many would dispute that fact with you. I do however disagree with you on a simple fact of stereo-typing an entire pilot group. I have quite a few friends there and in no way are they are going to let a few boneheads like Ben effect them. Remember bud not ALL pilots voted for that contract... Why is Ben so bitter? With that much flight time and 121 time I would think he could have moved on to greener pastures, maybee a tad bitt(a) huh?!! (no sarcasm intended) Funny cause a friend just left Mesa for ATA a few months back and many others have done the same. You get what you negotiate for so EJ should not be effected by this, that would be a very lame excuse and a cop out. If they cave in then that is not Mesa's problem. I wish the entire ExpressJet guys the best of luck but in no way should you already to start to blame the Mesa pilot group. The guys I know there would be more than happy to step toe to toe with anyone else any day of the week.


If you do not like Mesa and the contract then the simple (very simple) solution would be NOT to fly for them. I think the growth, equipment, future plans, employment stability, etc, speak for themselves...


come on folks

3 5 0

 

[captjim]

Fortunately your views are not shared by very many, sometimes ignorance is good though since it provides a few of us a good laugh.3 5 0

Really now, how many guys from other small jet carriers have you talked to lately?

I wish the entire ExpressJet guys the best of luck but in no way should you already to start to blame the Mesa pilot group.

Thanks, but managment came into negotiation and threw down the Mesa payrates and said "Guys we have to compete with this". Sorry, the Mesa pilot group shot all other small jet carriers in the back by signing of on that crap.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Are you sure?

You have taken food out of my child's mouth.
You have lowered the standard for all future pilot contracts. You continuously set a bad example for what ALPA should represent.
You have looked out only for yourselves instead of the enitre industry as a whole.
I hope that you DO try to take over the world. Your customers know better than you obviously that, "you get what you pay for". They will pay s**t, and they will get s**t from mesa and soon, they will go to an airline where pride matters

Are you sure you got the right pilot group here? You surely cant be talking about Mesa or you obviously havent seen Mid Atlantics pay rates and work rules. These are mainline guys that are going to fly for Mid Atlantice. They also voted for their contract with ALPA blessings. I think you are mad at the wrong group as Mesa has been beaten in ALPA's quest for the bottom.

 

[Brewmaster]

Benny Boy,

I'm on my way out of Mesa as we speak and of to ATA and I agree that Mesa sucks but, it is management and the MESA ALPA MEC you need to direct your anger to. The pilots were sold out by ALPA and had our backs against the wall due to Jonny O and his lovely Freedom Airlines. You need to be informed before you direct your anger at the wrong group. FYI, I voted against the lousy contract Mesa ended up with. SEEEE YAAAA!

 

[mckpickle]

The Mesa pilots need to be responsible for the actions of THEIR MEC. If our MEC ever pulled that crap not only would they be recalled they'd probably get their buts kicked.

Mid Atlantic is trying to keep jobs AND trying to compete with the labor rates AT MESA. If they don't than U will just have the Mesas of the world fly the airplanes. US Airways' MEC needed to provide a compeative advantage to US Airways in order to keep the flying.

BTW I think about 90% of INFORMED regional pilots have no respect for Mesa. The other 10% work at Jonny's Junkyard.

 

[Cows Go Moo]

Thought I'd chime in with some of my dissertation from the other Mesa thread since we have a bunch of "informed" Mesa-bashers here too. I love cut and paste technology.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by mckpickle
Sorry, but when one group makes it so much harder for the rest of us why should we? The Freedom air excuse is BS. Ornstien could not have gotten Freedom up and running fast enough to avert a strike.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I think it's great when people talk about things they know very little about. JO could not have gotten Freedom up and running fast enough? What are you talking about, Willis? It was up. It was running. At the time we voted on our contract in March, 2003 Freedom had already been in operation for four to five months, were on a delivery schedule of two to three airplanes per month, had over a hundred trained pilots, and training ten to twelve additional pilots per delivered aircraft. If we had sent the TA back to the negotiating table Freedom still would have been a major thorn in our side (and yours) only now a much bigger thorn.

If, down the road, our NC and the company came to an impasse and we went on strike, it would have been at least a few months later and Freedom would have been a company of 20+ aircraft and 200+ pilots and still growing, and do you think Mesa Air Group would have any misgivings about moving assets from Mesa to Freedom?

How's this for an alternate (and speculative) history? We Mesa pilots went on strike in the Summer of 2003. A few hundred Mesa ALPA pilots were instantly furloughed. MAG announces plans to transfer aircraft from the Mesa cert to Freedom's at the rate of x per month and lease out the rest. A few months later, Mesa still on strike, Freedom is a company of 40+ aircraft, and that is no position to be in at a bargaining table. Begging, maybe, but not bargaining. Of course, this is only what might have happened internally at MAG. Externally, all of you other regionals would have to contend not with the Mesa contract but with Freedom's. And you all know their contract... there wasn't one. Low pay, no work rules, no anything.

You whine about how terrible it is having your QOL brought down by the Mesa contract? In an obscure round-about-way, perhaps you should be thanking us for agreeing to the contract we have, putting Freedom to bed before the bleeding got so bad that there was an unchecked growing regional of substantial size with both low pay and no union that all regionals would be subsequently compared to during negotiations, getting 100+ ALPA CC Air pilots, who were screwed by MAG, back to work with upward potential, and making the improvements we managed to make (including guaranteed pay raises of 15-30% over the life of the contract) in a horrible negotiating environment.

So, to the critics, you're welcome.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by mckpickle
Actually I know the situation quite well thank you. Freedom had been running with only around 5-6 airplanes when you took your vote. ANd a total of 87 pilots. How do you think MAG was financing these airplanes. If you had gone on strike and or voted that POS TA down the ability to gain financing would have been down the tubes. And listen to JO's Voice mail. He's allways talking about how hard it is to get financing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I understand what you're saying. It's a valid point, but you make it sound like our TA vote was a strike vote. It wasn't. A lot more time would have had to have passed before a strike actually came to life. If we sent the TA back, months would have passed, another TA would have come to vote, and then like I said before, Freedom would be a more viable entity. Then the second TA gets voted down, we enter a cooling-off (if the NMB likes us that day and we're lucky) and before you know it it's August or September or later. The trouble with Freedom was that it was not only a phantom threat. It was real. It was happening. MAG was going to fly the 700s and 900s with or without us, and every day counted.

 

[crj579]

Sorry Pickle but your logic doesn't cut the mustard. There have been a few contracts signed already that didn't work out an agreement for $58/hr to fly a 70-seat aircraft. MAA undercut Mesa. I hear that they are going to fly the 90-seat for only $5-$7/hr. A big undercut to the whole industry worked out by the U MEC with national ALPA's blessing. Your anger is misdirected and the hatred of Mesa is misdirected.

 

[crj579]

for only $5-7/hr. morefor the 90-seat.

 

[mckpickle]

It is not misdirected. I am not at all happy about the MAA deal. I am very disapointed with ALPA. I think however the writing is on the wall. I don't think ALPA thinks that US Air is going to pull out.

That being said, the MEsa contract was the hole in the daamn. It opened the floodgates. Anyone with and economic sense can grasp that if U hadn't agreed to the rates the a/c would have gone to one of the feeders. Its a bad situation all around.

As far as the timing on the Mesa contract as far as Freedom......You guys ever heard of a slowdown? Sick out? But you did nothing! If Ornstiens planes didn not move well he would not have gotten the contracts from United AND would not have gotten the financing for the 70/90 seaters.

PLUS if the performance numbers fell United and Airways would have put pressure on him to sign the daamn contract. Just like when the Delta shareholders put pressure on the Delta BOD to end the Comair strike.


The doom and gloom is and excuse and one that does not hold water when analized.

 

[captjim]

Guys, a lot of us understand the pressures you had on you. I still carry my Freedum list and always will! But, from where we stand, you didn't even try. Instead that POS past by a wide margin and that's what pisses people off, it wasn't even close. The only saving grace is you guys have scope now, so in 5 years there are no excuses.

 

[OneTuffGuy]

you have no excuse....the freedom air excuse is so lame.....why didnt you all grow some fricking balls like those at mesaba and stand up for what you believe in and what is right for the entire industry.....the pilots at mesa got wrong holed by j.o. and most of them liked it.......i dont blame j.o. either he is just making money so why not do what he does........the fault rests on the pilots who voted yes.

 

[mesaba2425]

To every mesa pilot that voted yes:

-You have taken food out of my child's mouth.
-You have lowered the standard for all future pilot contracts.
-You continuously set a bad example for what ALPA should represent.
-You have looked out only for yourselves instead of the enitre industry as a whole.

Sounds a lot like MesaBa too!!!

 

[ChinaClipper]

Bite My A$$...

the biggest mouthed anti-Mesa types are those who have either TAKEN concessions already and use YV as the "excuse" for not PERSONALLY have to risk anything OR THE PAID FOR THEIR JOBS!!! Talk about drivel, Please, Taking food outta my kids mouth? I remember being a poor CFI wondering if I'd EVER get a commuter job SOLEY because THEY could pay gazillions of dollars to BUY THEIR JOB and I couldn't (really WOULDN'T even if I had the cash!) Save you pious bull$hit, the facts are clear. Its easy to complain if YOU weren't the one "taking one for the cause". If ya wanna see how perverse this is, you tell me that USAir Mid Atlantic guys taking LESS than Mesa FOR BIGGER JETS is not worthy of your all-knowing kiddie rant. If you BOUGHT YOUR JOB you are the scum of the industry anren't qualified to comment on jack $hit!, the honor roll ? In the recent past; ACA, ASA, Express One/ Pinnicle, COMAIR leading the pack, GULFSTREAM and the list goes on, a list which DOESEN'T INCLUDE Mesa. In simple terms, if you're so brilliant and underpaid at your current position, get another job, I did......BTW NEVER forget what Freedumb Air has done to the profession, EVER! PS One Tuff Guylover is the one RECEIVEING in his avatar, what a wanker......

 

[ChinaClipper]

And another thing...

do even BEGIN to say no one fought JO and his scummy band of shysters, I had JO's Private investigators chasing me and quite a few others in a bizzare game of hide and seek. So don't tell me no fight existed. I risked my job in the fray, but got ZERO support frm my ALPA leadership! Many fought him at every turn only to be undercut by a MEC and negotiating committe who was unable to unify anything! Hey, if this contract was so posionous and sucked so bad, why didn't ALPA National withhold its blessings? The moral of the story is not the rants, but what happens when the ALPA structure is staffed my lameos and dufus idiots. JO used fear and intimidation to roll over a weak and pityful group of "union" members in charge of looking out for the interest of the whole. Instead, they looked out for themselves, Freedumb Air was taking on flying at a ferocious rate and growing. Jobs WERE leaving, probably never to return....JO may have been bluffing, but I doubt it. That diabolical SOB should be skinned.......along with the Mesa MEC and its Negotiating Comitte..........

 

[mckpickle]

Re: And another thing...

do even BEGIN to say no one fought JO and his scummy band of shysters, I had JO's Private investigators chasing me and quite a few others in a bizzare game of hide and seek. So don't tell me no fight existed. I risked my job in the fray, but got ZERO support frm my ALPA leadership! Many fought him at every turn only to be undercut by a MEC and negotiating committe who was unable to unify anything! Hey, if this contract was so posionous and sucked so bad, why didn't ALPA National withhold its blessings? The moral of the story is not the rants, but what happens when the ALPA structure is staffed my lameos and dufus idiots. JO used fear and intimidation to roll over a weak and pityful group of "union" members in charge of looking out for the interest of the whole. Instead, they looked out for themselves, Freedumb Air was taking on flying at a ferocious rate and growing. Jobs WERE leaving, probably never to return....JO may have been bluffing, but I doubt it. That diabolical SOB should be skinned.......along with the Mesa MEC and its Negotiating Comitte..........

We agree. Thats why we are all so pisssed. Because ALPA national and the Mesa MEC was so weak. But the pilots did nothing and with their 8X% pass rate it proves it.

 

[NightFlyer]

Man, all you guys sound like a broken record. The contract passed and there is nothing anyone can do about it at this point. Learn from it and move on with your lives and careers. Whining about the situation is not going to help anything. Take care.


NightFlyer

 

[low-key]

BOTTOM LINE: Mesa lowered the bar and also their union showed no balls with the last contract. whats done is done so, they gotta live with it. I am just thankful that my compaines union fought hard to get where were at now.