DOJ Criticizes CAL UAL Immunity Request

[whatitdoing?]

Prater is a CAL guy and he will see to it that his boys are taken care of during the merger.

UUhhhh.....hhhmmmm......jeez, I'm not even going to say anything.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

While this may be true we all know that without a merger UAL has serious problems going forward and few give them any chance to survive on their own. Deep down (and sometimes publicly) everyone at UAL knows they're circling the drain. Years of arrogance and poor management have left a once proud carrier desperately seeking a savior. .......http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN2959811120090629

Blah Blah Blah..... that all you got?

Those years of UAL arrogance are exactly what makes the difference between CAL's bloody stains and UAL's ability to win the day. The game of merger is not about my company is better than yours. Its about a companies pilots having a stronger backbone and will than the other company.

USAIR was swirling the bowl in 2004. US Air pilots right or wrong have been setting the pace of the merger since the merger with the West started.

UAL will win the day concerning the Master Seniority List because UAL pilots have what CAL pilots don't and will never have because of CAL's history.

Get your shoe shin rag ATRCA because your going to have some boot licken to do if you forget it tomorrow.

 

[ATRCA]

Blah Blah Blah..... that all you got?

Those years of UAL arrogance are exactly what makes the difference between CAL's bloody stains and UAL's ability to win the day. The game of merger is not about my company is better than yours. Its about a companies pilots having a stronger backbone and will than the other company.

USAIR was swirling the bowl in 2004. US Air pilots right or wrong have been setting the pace of the merger since the merger with the West started.

UAL will win the day concerning the Master Seniority List because UAL pilots have what CAL pilots don't and will never have because of CAL's history.

Get your shoe shin rag ATRCA because your going to have some boot licken to do if you forget it tomorrow.

17% interest against "spare parts" to raise $175 million at a company that routinely loses $500 million a quarter. Absolute desperation has arrived at UAL. Deep down, you know you're going to be fishing for a job at Home Depot without a merger. You guys have truly arrived at the bottom of the barrel. I like the WSJ version. That's the version where AA and CAL selectively pick apart the company at CH 7 proceedings. I seriously doubt the CAL BOD will allow CAL to assume UAL debt. The same group of folks who walked away from the last UAL save attempt will probably come to the same conclusion this time around. Your desperate and lashing out, I get it. I won't hold it against you. It's a long hard fall to the bottom and you're just now coming to grips with it...........

Have fun and start taking pictures. You'll want to remember end, you know for the stories and stuff. I would also start stealing all the UAL pillows, glasses and what not. 10 years from now that junk will be worth a few bucks on ebay...................

 

[ewrord]

Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. CAL is also very highly leveraged and could also face a cash shortage crisis itself. The one thing that is certain is that the place to be now, won't be in 5-10 years.

 

[BigRed1]

Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. CAL is also very highly leveraged and could also face a cash shortage crisis itself. The one thing that is certain is that the place to be now, won't be in 5-10 years.

I rarely post. I enjoy lurking. A lot of good information. Mostiy though, a lot of the same comments over and over again. UAL, for whom I work, is a great company, but one that has been poorly managed, and has been the victim of a very hostile leader towards its labor groups.

I am very tired of hearing of UAL's eventual demise. While the never ending shocks to our industry keep coming, it IS going to force the industry to change, just like the car industry. The DOJ is so hell bent on not allowing any one airline to have too much market share, because, god forbid, prices might go up. That fragmentation by having too many airlines and cheap start-ups will force the continued struggling of the airlines.

CAL is a great airline. But for everyone to think that CAL is in such great shape, and to just let UAL die and so they can pick up the pieces is fairly cocky and arrogent in my opinion. Is United in better shape? Nope. Is CAL United's saviour? Gimme a freakin' break.

From an investment news letter I get from www.stansberryresearch.com:

I'm about to tell you how I know exactly when Continental Airlines will go bankrupt. You might recall my similar work on GM. I spent about two years explaining, quarter after quarter, that there was no way the company could escape bankruptcy. Even though such information can be incredibly valuable to stock traders, my work inspired a lot of anger from our subscribers, who didn't understand my reasoning had nothing to do with cars, or "America," but simply with mathematics. GM's enormous debt load ($172 billion at last count) couldn't be supported by the car company's dwindling market share and negative profit margins. At a certain point (I'd say 2006), it became mathematically impossible for GM to ever make enough money to repay its obligations. The interest payments were compounding faster than it could ever hope to grow the business, and it didn't have enough equity left to refinance.

These situations are tragic for investors, employees, and customers. There are no easy explanations for why companies sometimes end up in these "no way out" scenarios. Thus, it may seem crass or even immoral for me to demonstrate how these situations can be the best investment opportunities of all. But I'd ask that you, if only for a minute, put aside these "good neighbor" emotions. You see, when you buy a stock, an endless number of things might go wrong. As an analyst, it is impossible for me to identify every possible business risk. And as you know, sooner or later, everything that can go wrong will go wrong.

On the other hand, when you're researching companies that are truly stuck in "no way out" scenarios, there aren't any realistic alternatives. No matter what else happens, their debts and interest payments will come due. And that means you can know, with a far higher degree of certainty, what your investing outcome will be. And so, I ask you: Would you rather own a stock that may or may not increase in value? Or would you rather short a stock that you can know, for certain, will go bankrupt by a specific date in the future?

This kind of analysis has always appealed to me because of the certainty. Most subscribers don't know my very first newsletter, written in 1999, accurately predicted the demise of the original AT&T, which was the most widely held stock in America at the time. Most recently, I told my subscribers Continental Airlines will go bankrupt. And now I can even tell you when...

The company has $105 million of equity sitting under more than $12 billion worth of debt. It operates at a loss because its gross margins have fallen in half in only three years. Fuel costs and competition have rendered its full-service, high-cost, and unionized business model obsolete – much like what happened to General Motors. It has $900 million worth of lease and capital obligations coming due this year and only $2.7 billion worth of cash left. In 2011, 40% of its $6 billion in long-term debt will come due.

But the trigger for Continental's bankruptcy will be an obscure clause in its credit-card processing agreement with Chase Bank. The agreement requires Continental to maintain at least 25% of its current obligations in cash. Next year (2010), the portion of its long-term debt that's due in 2011 will become "current" – due within the next 12 months. That will cause Continental's current obligations to soar to nearly $7 billion. At the same time, its cash reserves will be falling. The collapse of the current ratio will trigger a cascade of debt defaults, pushing the airline into bankruptcy. Thus, Continental will go bankrupt at some point in 2010.

I know Continental can do nothing to avoid a default. It only has $105 million of equity left. That's simply not enough to restructure its debts. And it can't operate profitably enough to afford to repay its debts – it doesn't even have enough cash to pay for the planes it has already agreed to buy from Boeing. If you short the stock today, I'm 100% sure you will double your money in 12 to 18 months.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Blah Blah Blah..... that all you got?

Those years of UAL arrogance are exactly what makes the difference between CAL's bloody stains and UAL's ability to win the day. The game of merger is not about my company is better than yours. Its about a companies pilots having a stronger backbone and will than the other company.
UAL will win the day concerning the Master Seniority List because UAL pilots have what CAL pilots don't and will never have because of CAL's history.

Get your shoe shin rag ATRCA because your going to have some boot licken to do if you forget it tomorrow.

Really? Care to make a wager on this point? I wish no ill will to any of my union brothers and sisters. As a member of the CAL MEC, I am ready to go to war to protect my pilots seniority. We have a solid MEC and that is very important in a merger. Not saying we are merging just if we do.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

I rarely post. I enjoy lurking. A lot of good information. Mostiy though, a lot of the same comments over and over again. UAL, for whom I work, is a great company, but one that has been poorly managed, and has been the victim of a very hostile leader towards its labor groups.

I am very tired of hearing of UAL's eventual demise. While the never ending shocks to our industry keep coming, it IS going to force the industry to change, just like the car industry. The DOJ is so hell bent on not allowing any one airline to have too much market share, because, god forbid, prices might go up. That fragmentation by having too many airlines and cheap start-ups will force the continued struggling of the airlines.

CAL is a great airline. But for everyone to think that CAL is in such great shape, and to just let UAL die and so they can pick up the pieces is fairly cocky and arrogent in my opinion. Is United in better shape? Nope. Is CAL United's saviour? Gimme a freakin' break.

From an investment news letter I get from www.stansberryresearch.com:

I'm about to tell you how I know exactly when Continental Airlines will go bankrupt. You might recall my similar work on GM. I spent about two years explaining, quarter after quarter, that there was no way the company could escape bankruptcy. Even though such information can be incredibly valuable to stock traders, my work inspired a lot of anger from our subscribers, who didn't understand my reasoning had nothing to do with cars, or "America," but simply with mathematics. GM's enormous debt load ($172 billion at last count) couldn't be supported by the car company's dwindling market share and negative profit margins. At a certain point (I'd say 2006), it became mathematically impossible for GM to ever make enough money to repay its obligations. The interest payments were compounding faster than it could ever hope to grow the business, and it didn't have enough equity left to refinance.

These situations are tragic for investors, employees, and customers. There are no easy explanations for why companies sometimes end up in these "no way out" scenarios. Thus, it may seem crass or even immoral for me to demonstrate how these situations can be the best investment opportunities of all. But I'd ask that you, if only for a minute, put aside these "good neighbor" emotions. You see, when you buy a stock, an endless number of things might go wrong. As an analyst, it is impossible for me to identify every possible business risk. And as you know, sooner or later, everything that can go wrong will go wrong.

On the other hand, when you're researching companies that are truly stuck in "no way out" scenarios, there aren't any realistic alternatives. No matter what else happens, their debts and interest payments will come due. And that means you can know, with a far higher degree of certainty, what your investing outcome will be. And so, I ask you: Would you rather own a stock that may or may not increase in value? Or would you rather short a stock that you can know, for certain, will go bankrupt by a specific date in the future?

This kind of analysis has always appealed to me because of the certainty. Most subscribers don't know my very first newsletter, written in 1999, accurately predicted the demise of the original AT&T, which was the most widely held stock in America at the time. Most recently, I told my subscribers Continental Airlines will go bankrupt. And now I can even tell you when...

The company has $105 million of equity sitting under more than $12 billion worth of debt. It operates at a loss because its gross margins have fallen in half in only three years. Fuel costs and competition have rendered its full-service, high-cost, and unionized business model obsolete – much like what happened to General Motors. It has $900 million worth of lease and capital obligations coming due this year and only $2.7 billion worth of cash left. In 2011, 40% of its $6 billion in long-term debt will come due.

But the trigger for Continental's bankruptcy will be an obscure clause in its credit-card processing agreement with Chase Bank. The agreement requires Continental to maintain at least 25% of its current obligations in cash. Next year (2010), the portion of its long-term debt that's due in 2011 will become "current" – due within the next 12 months. That will cause Continental's current obligations to soar to nearly $7 billion. At the same time, its cash reserves will be falling. The collapse of the current ratio will trigger a cascade of debt defaults, pushing the airline into bankruptcy. Thus, Continental will go bankrupt at some point in 2010.

I know Continental can do nothing to avoid a default. It only has $105 million of equity left. That's simply not enough to restructure its debts. And it can't operate profitably enough to afford to repay its debts – it doesn't even have enough cash to pay for the planes it has already agreed to buy from Boeing. If you short the stock today, I'm 100% sure you will double your money in 12 to 18 months.

To me this guys loses all credibility since he is trying to profit from shorting the stock.

 

[rumrunner300]

I hate'em but...

UAL will outlast CAL. In spite of itself, UAL is the stronger brand and will ultimately survive in some form or other. I do not purport to suggest that it will be a form worth a ********************, but a form nonetheless.

 

[SRJ]

Dig up older post prior to USAir/AmWest. A lot of denial was going on then also.....especially by USAir pilots being bought.

 

[Vne]

UAL, for whom I work, is a great company, but one that has been poorly managed, and has been the victim of a very hostile leader towards its labor groups.

WOW About 12 years ago I said the same thing to a UA on MY jumpseat about my airline ,TWA, and was told by that UA pilot "The sooner you die the better it will be for everybody else in this industry, Its about survival and those "healthy" enough to bring the industry UP and not drag it down"......

History is funny............