does ops ever call the hotel?

[91100 100 set]

Just wondering if everybody is in the same boat on this? You're calling in-range, or calling your times in (for the non-ACARS people), and you politely ask the ops people to give the hotel a buzz and tell them that you'll be curbside in XX minutes. They say "sure, no problem" or "they've already been called". Good, alright, no wait in the cold. So you put the plane to bed, and walk on out to the curb, looking expectantly for that green Holiday Inn van. And you wait, and wait, and wait some more. "Does anybody have the hotel number handy?" "Do you have your pairing handy?" So you dig it out of your bag (you'd think after 5 years I'd learn) and call the hotel. "Oh, okay, we'll send the van right out..." Geez. "Did you ever get a call from xxxxx operations?" "No this is the first call tonight." Figures. Is this happen everywhere, or just at those USAirways stations that still insist on calling any express aircraft a "commuter" when they only get 2 or 3 big jets a day? Or do I work for a company with spoiled pilots who expect too much and don't even know it? Granted, this only happens to me about 5 or 6 nights a month (when I'm typically out 12-15 nights a month), but it gets old being lied to.

 

[CA1900]

No, it's not just you, and it's not just US Airways stations. Continental and CoEx stations do it to us constantly: "No problem, I'll call them right now." Lies, all lies.

I make it a habit to put the hotel's number in my cellphone sometime before the end of the evening, so it's handy when we land. I call them myself while the passengers are unloading. If ops wants to do it, great, but I call to confirm that they're on the way, and tell then what time we'll be there. Asking ops to call the van is an exercise in futility.

My favorite is the CoEx station in Portland, ME, which TWICE last month said they'd call for the van for us and did, but neglected to tell me when we landed that the van driver was out sick and the hotel said we'd need to take a taxi. Think maybe you guys could tell us that when we call in on the ground with our times, instead of leaving us outside in 5 degree weather before we give up and call the hotel ourselves, having wasted half an hour now of our 8.5-hour overnight?

So no, it's not just you.

 

[91100 100 set]

Good, glad to hear it. I do occasionally remember to put the hotel number in my phone, but not always. Just the other day, we were calling the hotel, using the number provided on our pairing (it was a new overnight down south in NC, so we were unfamiliar). The guy on the other end has no idea who we are. I ask "this is the such and such hotel right?". "Uh, no.". "Oh, okay, sorry for bothering you.". So it was a trip to that big board of phones in baggage claim. Good times, and a wasted 20 minutes.

 

[91100 100 set]

I just noticed...

CA1900, I usually try not to get political here (save for the occasional Mesa bashing, which is always good fun), but I can't help but notice your remark about ALPA in your info. Be careful where you place your loyalties. Coming from a wholly-owned pilot, paying dues from a regional paycheck doesn't get you more than a subscription to a magazine and a shiny pin. I have heard good things about ALPA Aeromedical, but fortunately I have yet to need those services. I have no idea what the political (mis)connections between your company, CAL, and Expressjet are, but don't be surprised if they sell you down the river for the benefit of your new "brothers" whose dues contribution is larger.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Re: I just noticed...

CA1900, I usually try not to get political here (save for the occasional Mesa bashing, which is always good fun), but I can't help but notice your remark about ALPA in your info. Be careful where you place your loyalties. Coming from a wholly-owned pilot, paying dues from a regional paycheck doesn't get you more than a subscription to a magazine and a shiny pin. I have heard good things about ALPA Aeromedical, but fortunately I have yet to need those services. I have no idea what the political (mis)connections between your company, CAL, and Expressjet are, but don't be surprised if they sell you down the river for the benefit of your new "brothers" whose dues contribution is larger.

The issue with Commutair and ALPA, was that Continental's ALPA MEC was able to obtain positions for furloughed Express pilots at Commutair in addition to paying for medical insurance during thier furloughs. In return, an attempt to ALPAtize the Commutair pilots failed. Not looked kindly upon by many Express pilots. In my opinion ALPA is far from perfect in this complicated industry, but given the choice between ALPA, Teamsters, independent or no union, I'd choose ALPA.

 

[NEDude]

Short answer, they rarely call. No matter who you are.

Remember that as pilots we are overpaid and underworked. Nobody in the industry wants to help us out because everything is handed to us on a silver platter.

On a serious note, does anyone else get the feeling that as pilots we are at the bottom of the totem pole? I mean I can't tell you how often when a suggestion is made about something we get a response to the effect "That would be too hard on scheduling", or "That would be too hard on MX". Nobody ever says "That would be too hard on the flight crews".

As for CommutAir and ALPA, what's done is done (for now). No use on pointing fingers. Things may very well be different this summer.

 

[Dash8]

Just wondering if everybody is in the same boat on this? You're calling in-range, or calling your times in (for *snip*
month (when I'm typically out 12-15 nights a month), but it gets old being lied to.

dude, come on now, you know better than that lol. I'm guessin, where.....musta been ITH? oooh no crotchfester wasnt' it...
It's a beef I was discussing last week, the whole 'mainline' station jerkoffs treating us like crap just because crystal city pulled jets out and are turning them to express stations, ie BDL, ROC, ABE, BUF, BWI, uhm, dang, had a whole list of miserable stations...

 

[Dash8]

hey 91 were you on the road sat night? figured you'd go up to the 'feel the love' party at M.R.'s new house, there were a few of us there wasn't a bad time at all.

 

[BellyFlyer]

Comair specifically asks us NOT to call the hotel. Aparently, the hotels have to check the flight arrival information (internet/phone) and show up accordingly. That is part of their contract. If we don't see them within 15 min (I think) at the curb, we call our hotels folks and can get a cab at hotel expense.

This has worked our pretty well. I've only had a couple of times when the van didn't show and they were unaware of our arrival.

 

[CA1900]

Re: I just noticed...

CA1900, I usually try not to get political here (save for the occasional Mesa bashing, which is always good fun), but I can't help but notice your remark about ALPA in your info. Be careful where you place your loyalties.

I'm very careful where I place my loyalties, and believe me, we weighed many options before trying to bring ALPA on property. It was and always has been between us and our management.

I realize the wholly-owned U carriers got hosed when things got tough, but we get hosed even when things are GOOD. Our captain payscale has moved up a whopping 20 cents an hour in FIFTEEN YEARS! (And "first-year" captains still make the same as in 1989.) Our CEO had an open-house meeting a couple weeks ago, and somebody asked about getting longevity pay.* We had to explain to him what it was, and when we did, he said, "Well, if somebody brought that proposal to me, I'd throw him out of my office." No joke.

So, thanks for your concern, but I'm all too familiar with how our company operates, and believe me, ALPA was far preferable to what we have now (nothing).


Fly2Scuba, you couldn't be more wrong about "the issue." The campaign to unionize was underway before we even signed the CO codeshare three years ago, and long before the first CoEx furloughee was flying here. The deal ALPA organized to get their furloughees jobs in exchange for allowing us into CLE came much later. There was no "attempt to ALPAtize the Commutair pilots" by anyone except CommutAir pilots.

To outsiders, it appears like they engineered it to coincide with the CoEx pilots being on our seniority list, but it was simply favorable timing (or should have been) on our part. CALALPA only helped with the campaign because we asked them to, because they're a good example of how much better things could be with some negotiating leverage.

Now, wasn't this a thread about hotel vans?



* For those unfamiliar, we're paid by year in SEAT, not year at company. If the company doesn't upgrade you for three years, you're then still a "first-year" captain paid the same $30 that somebody upgrading in 14 months was paid. And that guy will forever be a year and a half ahead of you in pay, even though he's been at the company only a month longer. This has happened here.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

Do you guys have any provisions for taking a taxi to the hotel? At Comair, our hotel contracts state that it is the hotel's responsibility to find out when the flight is arriving and have the van at the airport on time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. We are trying to get away from calling the hotel to send the van, because it conditions the hotel to wait for the call. Of course on a short overnight it's hard not to call.

We also have a provision that if the van is not there to pick us up by 35 minutes after block in (20 min duty + 15 min wait for van), then we take a cab and the hotel pays for it. If they won't pay, captain pays, gets reimbursed from chief pilot, and the company deals with the hotel.

 

[crashpad]

OPS at AWAC has called the hotel on many occasions.... to ask for the flight times from the crew! Usually at 1-2 am on short overnights......uh, sorry I misinterpreted the title of this post.....

 

[Wanderer]

I don't think the people at the hotels have a clue on what is going on.

I love when they come out for your crew, and end up picking up another airlines crew....thinking it is your crew....and don't come back for you.

 

[shamrock]

You're calling in-range, or calling your times in (for the non-ACARS people), and you politely ask the ops people to give the hotel a buzz and tell them that you'll be curbside in XX minutes. They say "sure, no problem" or "they've already been called". Good, alright, no wait in the cold. So you put the plane to bed, and walk on out to the curb, looking expectantly for that green Holiday Inn van. And you wait, and wait, and wait some more. "Does anybody have the hotel number handy?" "Do you have your pairing handy?" So you dig it out of your bag (you'd think after 5 years I'd learn) and call the hotel. "Oh, okay, we'll send the van right out..." Geez. "Did you ever get a call from xxxxx operations?" "No this is the first call tonight."

Until you mentioned USAirways in the next sentence I was sure you were talking about ASA.

It happens here too. We even had a ramper follow a crew to the hotel to have a "discussion" with (threaten) the Captain after he caught them lying about calling the hotel. First class operation we have here, don't ya think?

 

[GateGirl]

As an ops agent who gets told to call for cabs, pizza, and many other random things with the in range calls let me explain something to you....

1) You call in range, we answer, you ask us to call the hotel/cab/pizza delivery guy (don't laugh ive called him many times)/wife/kids/babysitter/whoever the heck else you can think of for some strange reason...
2) I take the in range call, I have a million other things going on as well, someone's calling because they're bag is missing... someone's calling for air france's number (you'd be surprised...)
3) In small stations the ops agent is the ramp agent too, so I have to find the chalks, and night wands, which of the 12 pairs I have one wand works, so now i have to find batteries and im kicking myself in the butt because why didnt i do this before the darn plane called in range....
4) the plane comes i ramp it in, i take the pax off, yadda yadda yadda
5) take the in times, your calling wherever it is you have to call to tell them your comming with the RON aircraft but they arent listening so you call me again and ask me to call them (by the way, ive totally forgotten to call hotel van by now)
6) I put the times in I somehow manage to mess the times up and I have to call dispatch

Now even at larger station where 3 and 4 arent relevant you have more than one aircraft calling you inrange... and they to want you to call some random person too. So I jut thought I'd let you know. Im not complaining. I dont care, and heck if I remember to call the hotel van/cab/pizza guy/whoever i'll do it, i dont care.... but sometimes were busy and we forget were human too...

 

[atldc9]

I used to have this problem. Settled it pretty quickly. When you ask op's to call the hotel, tell them to get the name of the person with whom they spoke. When you call in your times, get op's to give you the name. Pretty easy to tell who is lying when they have to answer the question, either at the hotel or airport- 'who'd you talk too?'

Trust but verify.

 

[GateGirl]

I used to have this problem. Settled it pretty quickly. When you ask op's to call the hotel, tell them to get the name of the person with whom they spoke. When you call in your times, get op's to give you the name. Pretty easy to tell who is lying when they have to answer the question, either at the hotel or airport- 'who'd you talk too?'

Yup and thats what ops says to you "sorry XXXX, there must be something wrong with one of our radios I didnt quite get the end of that last transmission..."

 

[crashpad]

The oriental proverb says;'Why do something yourself when you can get others to do it for you'. I like; 'If you want something done right, do it yourself' Hint: cellphone as you're leaving the aeroplane.
Of course, if you're the captain you can ask a fellow crewmember to do it and kill two birds.....it works fine, either way.

 

[91100 100 set]

Dash8, it happens everywhere dude. But mostly at those super-senior US stations all across the NYS thruway. I was home last Sat, and was planning on going to the party, LG called me to see if I was going, but I was out running errands all afternoon and got home completely exhausted at like 9 pm, so I figured I'd work on the dent in my couch and watch taped episodes of Aqua Teen (loser, I know). I shoulda come out for it. I've never been to a MR party, and lately my attitude seems to be right in line with his, so we'd have lots to talk about (and drink lots of Mr. Seigal's mini's)

GateGirl, I know there are alot of ramp, gate, and ops folks that work pretty darn hard all over and for lots of different companies with and without the express tag on it, and I give them credit where credit is due. But it burns me to see 10 rampers sitting in a break room watching CABLE TV (my own domicile has 50+ channels on the TV), on the clock mind you. Or the ones that have the nerve to yell at you when you come into the breakroom and turn the lights on to read something and you wake them up. Still on the clock. Dateline runs episodes about when I fall asleep on the clock...

 

[FlyChicaga]

Usually our Ops is very good about it. Sometimes it's the hotel that's making the excuses though. "Nope, they never called, first we heard of it." Right.

The worst I've ever experienced is when we completed a rough day with an approach in a snowstorm up in Michigan, right down to minimums. Get inside, exhausted, ready to get the heck to the hotel, and find no van. Go get ops? Nope, they are out working the outbound flight for the next 15 minutes. So we try to call using the number off our pairings via cell phone. None of us can reach the hotel. So we head to the hotel phone board. Not going through. By this time ops is out at the counter again. They try, no luck. What is going on?? We call dispatch, see if they can try. No luck there either. Finally, after 30 minutes, we go in search of a taxi. But alas, no taxis are available. Won't be available for a while due to the snowstorm. So we keep trying the hotel. Nothing. Finally, over an hour and a half later, we just call another hotel and see if they can bill the company. Luckily we find a real nice hotel up the road (actually better than ours), and 2 hours after we blocked in are finally in bed. Only bad news is that we need a 4:30 am van, but they don't start van service until 5:30 am. WTF??? So we manage to negotiate that one of the building maintenance personnel will drive us to the airport at 4:30 am.

Turns out the power went out in the whole area our hotel was located, which was about 2 miles up the road from the hotel we ended up at that night. I'm thinking we need to permanently change, since it's a more "electrically sound" area.