Do you mean to tell me....

[ATRCA]

To all aspiring to move on to one of the big 3 look down the road 10,20,30 years. You will be better off if you go to AA. Look at the big picture. Research the retirements. Look at the future debt obligations. Research the bases you may hold after your first year. AA bases are far superior to Delta's bases. Do you really want to raise a family in Atlanta? Sorry to offend my mates, to each their own of course. Earning maddog FO pay for a decade on 4-day trips over the weekend vs. 3-day trips on an airbus to great destinations. Delta trips to Montgomery, AL!?! F-NO! AA trips to all the Caribbean islands such as Montego Bay, Jamaica...uh YES! Upgrade on an Airbus in 6 years vs. upgrade on a Maddog in 12+ years? Is that really a choice my young lads? That alone could cost you hundreds of thousands of $. Choose wisely. Please look at the BIG picture and not a current snapshot of the present airline contracts.

Wait, are you really insinuating that you know what AA will look like in 30 years? That's funny. How long have you been doing this? If any clown thinks they can predict what a US major will look like in even a decade, they're full of SHT. Maybe just sit back for a while, merging ain't easy and AA just got started. There's a lot of work to do before anyone can predict a future one way or another.

 

[General Lee]

To all aspiring to move on to one of the big 3 look down the road 10,20,30 years. You will be better off if you go to AA. Look at the big picture. Research the retirements. Look at the future debt obligations. Research the bases you may hold after your first year. AA bases are far superior to Delta's bases. Do you really want to raise a family in Atlanta? Sorry to offend my mates, to each their own of course. Earning maddog FO pay for a decade on 4-day trips over the weekend vs. 3-day trips on an airbus to great destinations. Delta trips to Montgomery, AL!?! F-NO! AA trips to all the Caribbean islands such as Montego Bay, Jamaica...uh YES! Upgrade on an Airbus in 6 years vs. upgrade on a Maddog in 12+ years? Is that really a choice my young lads? That alone could cost you hundreds of thousands of $. Choose wisely. Please look at the BIG picture and not a current snapshot of the present airline contracts.

Wow, everything you stated was a lie. Delta mainline doesn't fly to Montgomery for one thing. Next, the upgrade times are only coming down, and your upgrade time on your AA side is unbelievably high, zero in PHX, and lower on your US side, where there is a World War going on that will end poorly. The West pilots have been left out of East upgrades because of the lack of integrity of their so called "union."

New hires on the AA side have been going to the MD80 (not newer MD88/90) in DFW, or the domestic 757 category in MIA, which mainly does allnighters back to MIA from the West Coast (hence the juniority). The US side has newhires going to PHX and staying there, or the East side and getting an "earful" on how they got screwed with the NIC Award, even though they would have liquidated had AWA not saved them. What a nightmare, for decades.

So, yes, look at long term. DL has better management, higher pay, 5000+ retirements, and none of the bull krap that goes along with the US debacle.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Dumb Pilot]

It still amazes me as to how fast we forget...., this is nothing but an upswing in a notoriously cyclical industry, retirements are nothing new (spare me the "unprecedented numbers" blah...., blah! I heard that on the "welcome to your last job in aviation" speech over 25 years ago) just apply to all jobs available, take all the interviews offered and if (a big "if") you get an offer, take it and hope that luck is on your side..! All the talk about the better choice, it's all speculative nonsense! You DON'T know how this industry will look a year from now, little alone a decade.

 

[pave driver]

It still amazes me as to how fast we forget...., this is nothing but an upswing in a notoriously cyclical industry, retirements are nothing new (spare me the "unprecedented numbers" blah...., blah! I heard that on the "welcome to your last job in aviation" speech over 25 years ago) just apply to all jobs available, take all the interviews offered and if (a big "if") you get an offer, take it and hope that luck is on your side..! All the talk about the better choice, it's all speculative nonsense! You DON'T know how this industry will look a year from now, little alone a decade.

This guy gets it. GL...not so much.

 

[pave driver]

Wow, everything you stated was a lie. Delta mainline doesn't fly to Montgomery for one thing. Next, the upgrade times are only coming down, and your upgrade time on your AA side is unbelievably high, zero in PHX, and lower on your US side, where there is a World War going on that will end poorly. The West pilots have been left out of East upgrades because of the lack of integrity of their so called "union."

New hires on the AA side have been going to the MD80 (not newer MD88/90) in DFW, or the domestic 757 category in MIA, which mainly does allnighters back to MIA from the West Coast (hence the juniority). The US side has newhires going to PHX and staying there, or the East side and getting an "earful" on how they got screwed with the NIC Award, even though they would have liquidated had AWA not saved them. What a nightmare, for decades.

So, yes, look at long term. DL has better management, higher pay, 5000+ retirements, and none of the bull krap that goes along with the US debacle.



Bye Bye---General Lee

For those looking to choose a final destination, please ignore the quoted above as we are all dumber for having read this diatribe.

Friends don't let friends work for delta without applying to American!

Oh, BTW, delta leadership is FAR inferior to AA leadership!

 

[Dornier 335]

East side and getting an "earful" on how they got screwed with the NIC Award, even though they would have liquidated had AWA not saved them. What a nightmare, for decades.

Been there for 3+ years. Never heard anything. This board or GL who tries to stir the pot, that's a different story!

 

[General Lee]

It still amazes me as to how fast we forget...., this is nothing but an upswing in a notoriously cyclical industry, retirements are nothing new (spare me the "unprecedented numbers" blah...., blah! I heard that on the "welcome to your last job in aviation" speech over 25 years ago) just apply to all jobs available, take all the interviews offered and if (a big "if") you get an offer, take it and hope that luck is on your side..! All the talk about the better choice, it's all speculative nonsense! You DON'T know how this industry will look a year from now, little alone a decade.

Uhhhhhh, a couple things have changed compared to the past. It's called Consolidation and fees (bag and ticket change). Those totally changed this industry. The big 6 turned into the big 3. SWA merged with AT. That means fewer choices, and larger profits. So, it will probably look close to the same. There may be good times and bad times, but the bigger airlines will probably survive.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Been there for 3+ years. Never heard anything. This board or GL who tries to stir the pot, that's a different story!

Hmmm, my friends that do jump on your flights beg to differ. They said most of the conversation (from the East and West) deals with how both sides got screwed. Lots of eye rolling going on (from the jumpseaters) in the East cockpits.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Dornier 335]

Hmmm, my friends that do jump on your flights beg to differ. They said most of the conversation (from the East and West) deals with how both sides got screwed. Lots of eye rolling going on (from the jumpseaters) in the East cockpits.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Like listening to the old PA and WA conversations (now including RC)?

That's like saying pilots don't whine!!!

 

[JohnDoe]

It still amazes me as to how fast we forget...., this is nothing but an upswing in a notoriously cyclical industry, retirements are nothing new (spare me the "unprecedented numbers" blah...., blah! I heard that on the "welcome to your last job in aviation" speech over 25 years ago) just apply to all jobs available, take all the interviews offered and if (a big "if") you get an offer, take it and hope that luck is on your side..! All the talk about the better choice, it's all speculative nonsense! You DON'T know how this industry will look a year from now, little alone a decade.

^^^^^ This


Alot of people in this country are utterly incapable of learning from history.

 

[Dan Roman]

^^^^^ this


alot of people in this country are utterly incapable of learning from history.

+1....

 

[General Lee]

Like listening to the old PA and WA conversations (now including RC)?

That's like saying pilots don't whine!!!

No, they're almost all gone. You've got years of whining ahead with the Easties. What a nightmare.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[say again]

It still amazes me as to how fast we forget...., this is nothing but an upswing in a notoriously cyclical industry, retirements are nothing new (spare me the "unprecedented numbers" blah...., blah! I heard that on the "welcome to your last job in aviation" speech over 25 years ago) just apply to all jobs available, take all the interviews offered and if (a big "if") you get an offer, take it and hope that luck is on your side..! All the talk about the better choice, it's all speculative nonsense! You DON'T know how this industry will look a year from now, little alone a decade.

This guy gets it!! Thanks for being a realist about this industry.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

UAL reserve guarantee is 73-76 vice 72 for Delta. Line holder is 70 at UAL vice 65, and UAL trip rig is 3.5:1, meaning way more time home.

That's almost true.

Reserve at DAL fluctuates within a range relative to the average line value actually - between 72 and 80 hours. Shakes out to an average of 76-76 across the year.

But as you say, splitting hairs.

 

[SIG600]

It still amazes me as to how fast we forget...., this is nothing but an upswing in a notoriously cyclical industry, retirements are nothing new (spare me the "unprecedented numbers" blah...., blah! I heard that on the "welcome to your last job in aviation" speech over 25 years ago) just apply to all jobs available, take all the interviews offered and if (a big "if") you get an offer, take it and hope that luck is on your side..! All the talk about the better choice, it's all speculative nonsense! You DON'T know how this industry will look a year from now, little alone a decade.

Nailed it. In GL's world, the history book is only two years old.

 

[General Lee]

Nailed it. In GL's world, the history book is only two years old.

He nailed it, but things have changed so radically in the last few years that it will be tough, not impossible though, to change it's course. If Mars attacks, then all bets are off.....



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Still cheaper than paying for a type ride

That oughta stir up the Herb Turds.....

 

[SIG600]

He nailed it, but things have changed so radically in the last few years that it will be tough, not impossible though, to change it's course. If Mars attacks, then all bets are off.....



Bye Bye---General Lee

"This time is different."

Because those words have NEVER been uttered by anyone in this industry.

 

[General Lee]

"This time is different."

Because those words have NEVER been uttered by anyone in this industry.

No, fundamental things have changed in the industry. That doesn't mean something couldn't happen, though. Wow you are dramatic!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SplitBar]

Hotel is provided for the first two weeks of training, Indoc. Only after Indoc are you on your own as far as housing is concerned. It's a fairly quick training footprint and you are only looking at about 3 weeks. You can splurge and get your own hotel room near the training center for around $1000 total or you can get a training crashpad for a few hundred. Either way, much much cheaper than paying for your own 737 type rating.

 

[redflyer65]

Hotel is provided for the first two weeks of training, Indoc. Only after Indoc are you on your own as far as housing is concerned. It's a fairly quick training footprint and you are only looking at about 3 weeks. You can splurge and get your own hotel room near the training center for around $1000 total or you can get a training crashpad for a few hundred. Either way, much much cheaper than paying for your own 737 type rating.

I was out of pocket on my type rating for about $1600. So not really. I'd like to see both polices changed, but that could take awhile.

 

[SplitBar]

I was out of pocket on my type rating for about $1600. So not really. I'd like to see both polices changed, but that could take awhile.

Well that certainly isn't the norm Red. I know a lot of people who went down to Higher Power and shelled out closer to $10,000 because not only did they have to shell out for the type but they had to pay for their own accomodiations while they were getting the type. How did you manage to do it so cheap?

 

[redflyer65]

Well that certainly isn't the norm Red. I know a lot of people who went down to Higher Power and shelled out closer to $10,000 because not only did they have to shell out for the type but they had to pay for their own accomodiations while they were getting the type. How did you manage to do it so cheap?

Got the thumbs up first, then got it for 5k. After taxes...$1600. Again, both type and hotel cost at DL should go away.

If hired at Delta, I wouldn't have sweated that either. Just get it over with and get on with a great career. Both are real head scratcher though.

 

[Freebrd]

geez even Regionals pay for hotels during new hire training, at least LASA does

just saying

 

[Freebrd]

Wow, everything you stated was a lie. Delta mainline doesn't fly to Montgomery for one thing.
Bye Bye---General Lee

Well well genius Jenny, Delta used to fly 6-8 mainline flights in the 90s to Montgomery but then outsourced it to regionals. DCI still flying there, on behalf of Delta, Jenni. Who knows maybe your precious 717s you're always crowing about will "take back those flight" eh?

 

[General Lee]

Well well genius Jenny, Delta used to fly 6-8 mainline flights in the 90s to Montgomery but then outsourced it to regionals. DCI still flying there, on behalf of Delta, Jenni. Who knows maybe your precious 717s you're always crowing about will "take back those flight" eh?

You are correct, but right now mainline does not. Gotta give the truth. Notice 717s go to ECP, VPS, BHM, CHA, AVL, MYR, XNA, GSP, CAE, GNV, AGS, GPT, MOB, and TLH---- all current or previous LASA routes, and many that were former mainline routes. It's a good trend that will continue, and only 44 or half of the 717s have arrived.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SkiDawg]

geez even Regionals pay for hotels during new hire training, at least LASA does

just saying

So does AWAC

 

[SkiDawg]

geez even Regionals pay for hotels during new hire training, at least LASA does

just saying

So does AWAC. Shouldn't have to go backwards as career goes forward. Just sayin

 

[Freebrd]

Heard ya the first time SkiDog.

 

[waveflyer]

Everyone is bitching about new hire pay & hotels. But where is that money going to come from?

Management is more than willing to pay new hires more and reimburse hotels in the next contract. They will just take it out of other compensation increases going to the pilot group. What pilot group is going to accept less for guys not even hired yet?

Some say that management should pay new hires better without taking from the pilot group's compensation as they want to attract the best candidates. But with the large number of applicants for each pilot slot, management doesn't see this as a problem. So once again it comes to the fact management will want to offset increases from other areas of the pilot contract and you won't get existing pilots willing to take the hit. Or the existing pilots will say if there is extra money available it should go to them, not guys who have not been hired yet.

I'm not saying this is right or wrong, I'm just playing devil's advocate and giving food for thought.

BTW, Hawaiian does not pay for hotels during any training conducted in HNL for new hires or existing pilots. That is because HNL is everyone's domicile and you are expected to provide your own housing in domicile.

Ghetto, a terrible attitude toward your junior, and very shortsighted about the effects first year compensation has upon EVERYONE's negotiating abilities. This is not a zero sum game. We need first year compensations to be professional wages, so that pilots will have the confidence to take the stands they need to take. That if the ship does actually go down, the next job will be livable. It'll suck to lose seniority and longevity pay, but, you'll survive and be paid well even if not what you had been making.

We saw that after 9/11- mgmt cooks the books and KNOWS pilots will NOT take a stand because starting over is not just tough, it is f-ing poverty and impossible.

Hawaiian really has some piece of work senior over there based on who posts here. All for the senior over there, even though it nets your senior less.
Your mgmt has you believing that divide and conquer sh/t Jim.

Honolulu is MUCH TOO EXPENSIVE to not pay for a hotel during training so pilots can get their feet under them after a big life change.

Ghetto ghetto