Do you fly left and right seat at NetJets

[Safetycheck]

What?

I know of a certain individual that had training issues at a major airline and a review of said persons logbook was made. One aircraft registered in the logbook was parked in the desert two years after the same pilot was born!

Much like a mutual fund is doesn't guarantee the same future return, but its a better gamble than the crap we're seeing in logbooks now!

What are you sniffin boy?

Did they teach you advanced logical thinking in Kindeygarten last year or this year in first grade?

 

[Hawkered]

I've been flying for over 22 years and worked at a major airline. How exactly young do you think I am there Methusula?

 

[Safetycheck]

Yes, and.....

I've been flying for over 22 years and worked at a major airline. How exactly young do you think I am there Methusula?

So you took your first flight in vitro and you worked for Mesa.... is that all you got there JUNIOR?

 

[Hawkered]

Huh?!

A little advice for you there "Safety",(an oxymoron?).

Don't Drink and type!

 

[Safetycheck]

Let me get this straight

Huh?!

A little advice for you there "Safety",(an oxymoron?).

Don't Drink and type!

I know, for you straight is an oxymoron, but anyway. What are you saying there Hawkered? Insinuating that there is something wrong with Safety?

Oh no, you dont have to worry about safety. You have your people doing that for you.

Please clarify. Come on. I'm enjoying this, arguing with the handicapped uneducated and otherwise impaired.

 

[Hawkered]

I can assure you that your inadequacies have been very well recorded here!

You are poorly organised and without substance in any of your arguments.

With such a poor level of wit and such a need to overcompensate I would venture to guess that you are a scab that had to suck wind as you went from one failed carrier to another.

 

[VVJM265]

The current definitions in the FARs really do seem to confuse the situation. Transpac made a reference to the USN way which effectively equates to:

Aircraft Commander = FAR part 1; you sign for plane, you log the “A” time even if you’re in the rack ‘cause its your a$$ in the sling if something happens.

1st Pilot = FAR 61.51 “sole manipulator”
2nd Pilot = FAR 61.51 “SIC”

People get into discussions about logging 61.51 PIC without a current NATOPS check, but the salient point is that A time = part 1 time. I think that if the FARs changed part 1 to read something similar to Aircraft Commander, Captain or just something other than the “PIC” term used in 61.51, then much of the confusion would be alleviated.

As far as who logs the A time with two qual’d Aircraft Commanders: I’ve been in commands where the senior guy, by rank, normally signs for the plane and other commands where the Ops would schedule to balance the A time across the pilots. In all cases, the bottom line was whoever Ops put as the Aircraft Commander on the schedule that the CO then signed was who signed for the plane. The key point being that the CO approved who was in command for each flight.

In every plane I’ve flown in the Navy, we swap seats. At the training command we train the kids starting in the left seat for the C-12 & T-44. Even in the tactical trainers, you are trained primarily in the front seat, but you’ll still spend some time in the trunk under the bag on instrument hops (dating myself here, at least we used to, not sure what we’re doing in the T-45 now, may be mostly simulator time now).

In the T-39 & C-26, once you got the initial check, you were legal to land with pax. Granted we had the luxury of having the 5 sims at Flight Safety and then an in house syllabus of another 10-20 hours w/ 30-50 T&Gs in the plane before the check-ride, almost all in the left seat. Later the aircraft commander syllabus was another 10-20 hours, but with landings in the right seat and learning how to recognize “new copilot mistakes,” etc. The IP syllabus is all from the right seat. (P-3 is similar but with some tighter restrictions on landing with pax (not crew) because they don’t get a check-ride right away.)

When I was flying those airplanes (39&26), and with a new copilot, I’d usually give them the extra leg if we had an odd number of legs, regardless of the pax situation. Obviously if the were extenuating circumstances (going into Northolt, the wx is crap and he hasn’t been in there yet) then I’d take the leg from the left seat. As the copilots got more experienced, I would start making them take landings on empty legs from the right seat in preparation for the aircraft commander syllabus. It all seems a little bass-ackwards from the way the commercial side does things.

Anyway, just a different perspective and my 5 cents this morning. Fly safe everyone.
VVJM265

 

[cessnapilot]

here is the deal on PIC time

I found this article with a google search...

http://www.jet-jobs.com/articles/loggingpic.html

http://www.jet-jobs.com/articles/loggingpic.html


Regards

 

[Ultra Grump]

You can log it strictly per the FAR definitions, but you'd better be ready to explain yourself in an interview.

 

[cessnapilot]

seems clear

FAR Part 61:51 deals with pilot logbooks and cites the instances in which pilots can log pilot-in-command flight time. These are:

1. only that flight time during which [the] pilot is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated, OR
2. when the pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft, OR
3. when acting as pilot-in-command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required (by type certification or flight regulations).

Additionally, airline transport pilots and certificated instructor pilots may log as pilot-in-command time that flight time during which they act as a pilot-in-command or instructor, respectively.

Note the FAA's intent in defining pilot-in-command time, and in requiring pilots to record PIC in their logbooks, is to allow pilots to document aeronautical training and experience used to obtain specific certificates or ratings. For instance, airmen need 100 hours of pilot-in-command time to obtain a Commercial certificate, and 250 hours PIC for the Airline Transport Pilot certificate. Such flight time must be logged and presented as evidence in qualifying for these certificates. The FAA never set our to establish or document airline hiring criteria.