Do you fly left and right seat at NetJets

[transpac]

I found this article with a google search...

http://www.jet-jobs.com/articles/loggingpic.html

http://www.jet-jobs.com/articles/loggingpic.html


Regards

This is an excellent reference. Although most examples of the abuses of logging "sole manipulator" PIC refer to two Private Pilots in a Navajo, the military, at least the Navy, has been doing much the same thing since the dawn of time. Except for the airlines, most employers are going to accept the FAA (and the military) definition of pilot time. My suggestion is to log everything that's legal so as to be competitive at those employers who accept the FAA definition. But, a logbook should be flexible enough to breakout FAR 1 PIC time for those employers who might ask for it.

 

[CapnVegetto]

At my company, we allow SIC's to fly left seat with no pax onboard, and I always let them when they want. I see no problem with seat swapping. I would always prefer to fly left seat when I'm PF. Why? Because the planes I fly are designed to be flown from the left seat. In the CE-500's all the switches are located on the left. In the CE-650 there's the tiller on the left. Can you fly it from the right? Sure. But it's a royal farking pain in the arse. Besides, every FO I fly with is a 'captain in training.' They gotta learn sometime. Of course, I like them to fly from the right seat every once in a while simply because it's their job should something happen to me.

As far as the PIC time issue goes, if I'm with a senior captain, (which happens sometimes) and I'm flying left seat, I'm logging PIC. The airlines can say whatever the hell they want, because I don't give a flying rat's turd about ever doing 121 again. Insurance companies are OK with it, so is the FAA, and that's all I give a crap about.

 

[brokeflyer]

the only time were "required" to sign for the plane is a 91k, 135 leg. If im in the right seat with pax on board and i'm flying, it's logged as SIC because that is what is required. If it's 91 empty and flying from either seat it's PIC. That's the way the regs are. Like the above, I don't care about 121 flying. I like my paycheck and I lke working 175 days a year and not getting laid-off.

 

[XTW]

the only time were "required" to sign for the plane is a 91k, 135 leg........ If it's 91 empty and flying from either seat it's PIC. That's the way the regs are. .

So let's say, God forbid, something happens on one of these 91 legs that you are "PIC" for, who is the FAA and company going to look to for answers? My hunch is the "real" PIC. If it makes you feel good to log it, so be it. Let your concience be your guide.


X

 

[brokeflyer]

Not sure, I'd suggest you ask an FAA guy to see what they think.

 

[gunfyter]

All the PIC time belongs to the Captain.

Who logs PIC time while the autopilot is flying? Sole manipulator of Contols? OK log the 4 minutes per flight the a/p is off.

This is all because of the way civilians log flight time. Navy way was better.

 

[FracCapt]

Can you fly it from the right? Sure. But it's a royal farking pain in the arse.

I guess I must be pretty special, then....because I never found flying anything from the right seat difficult. Transfer of controls(meaning steering below 80kias) must be extremely difficult since none of the airlines seem to be able to get it right and keep running airplanes off the runway during such transfers....oh, wait...they don't...that's right. So, are you saying that it is more difficult for corporate, fractional, and 135 operators to transfer controls? I didn't think so...

 

[Sparse]

tgr -
Diesel has a good point. For some of the aircraft that have a tiller for instance, most of us would prefer not to fly from the right seat. at all..but it's all up to the PIC. If you do fly from the right in an aircraft with a tiller, there is typically a "hand-off" at 80 kts (approx) from the left seat driving with tiller, to the guy in the right taking over at 80 (for rudder effectiveness).

Some like it some don't...
I used to be in the CE650, and didn't like the hand-off, but it's a bit easier in the 800XP.

Why would you have your hand on the tiller during takeoff. That's a real fine way to get yourself into a bad situation during slippery runways. From my experiance a tiller should only be used when you are taxiing. Once the power goes up, hands off the tiller and only put your hand on it when you can't turn it without your feet. More than several aircraft have departed the runway due to using the tiller during rollout.

 

[HS125]

Why would you have your hand on the tiller during takeoff. That's a real fine way to get yourself into a bad situation during slippery runways. From my experiance a tiller should only be used when you are taxiing. Once the power goes up, hands off the tiller and only put your hand on it when you can't turn it without your feet. More than several aircraft have departed the runway due to using the tiller during rollout.

Do that in most corprate jets and you WILL end up departing the runway. Most corprate jets do not have nose wheel steering conected to the rudder pedals and rudder effectiveness doesn't come alive until 60 - 80 knots. Thus, the tiller is used up to approximately 80 knots (or more in strong crosswinds).

 

[HS125]

I guess I must be pretty special, then....because I never found flying anything from the right seat difficult. Transfer of controls(meaning steering below 80kias) must be extremely difficult since none of the airlines seem to be able to get it right and keep running airplanes off the runway during such transfers....oh, wait...they don't...that's right. So, are you saying that it is more difficult for corporate, fractional, and 135 operators to transfer controls? I didn't think so...

Airliners have limited nose wheel steering through the rudder pedals and the tiller is not used after the aircraft is lined up on the runnway.

This whole discussion on the transfer of controls at 80kts. is silly. If the flying pilot is in the right seat, he has control of the flight controls and all the left seat pillot has to do is keep the aircraft pointed straight down the runnway until 60 - 80 knots and then release the tiller. Simple as that! It doesn't need to be anymore complicated then that.

 

[hawkercpt]

OK...what about

FO's wearing 4 stripes???



I know,....


here we go again.

 

[CapnVegetto]

I guess I must be pretty special, then....because I never found flying anything from the right seat difficult. Transfer of controls(meaning steering below 80kias) must be extremely difficult since none of the airlines seem to be able to get it right and keep running airplanes off the runway during such transfers....oh, wait...they don't...that's right. So, are you saying that it is more difficult for corporate, fractional, and 135 operators to transfer controls? I didn't think so...

Dude, what the hell is the matter with you? I thought to be a pilot that you had to READ, SPEAK, AND UNDERSTAND ENGLISH. Where did I say it was difficult?

It's a pain in the a$$. Just like mowing your yard, or waiting for hot water in the shower, or opening 8 little ketchup packets to get enough dam-n ketchup to dip your fries in, or rewinding VHS tapes, or......you get the point. It's easier to fly from the left seat. The planes are designed to be flown from the left. It's less of a pain in the a$$.

Read the post chucklehead.