Do the FO owners know??

[hydrarkt]

Do the Options owners know what is going on at FO? Do they know that pilots are being pressured to fly aircraft?

If not, they will know eventually. And I don't think that they'll be happy to know that their pilots are worried about losing their jobs if they don't fly.

 

[captain dad]

Do the Options owners know what is going on at FO? Do they know that pilots are being pressured to fly aircraft?

If not, they will know eventually. And I don't think that they'll be happy to know that their pilots are worried about losing their jobs if they don't fly.

That was meant to be rhetorical, right?

 

[Galaxy]

I am not sure they know the extent of the pushing and lack of morale. The owners have known that the ship has been sinking for a long long time. Most of the time it was the lies out of CGF that really pissed them off. Like trips that would depart at the oddest time so that you would land with exactly 14 hours. Then the owner would show late for a time he never knew even though he was really on time per his sheet. The crew would show the times on the trip sheets and say sorry-please call your owner service rep. The owners all knew exactly how much time they had left on their contract. Most of the share owners have been gone-perhaps to NJ, CS, FX and XO. You just can't treat your customers that way and stay in business. Mostly card owners now and they even piss off that group.
The fact they have Ford & Harrison there running the show doing horrible things and in the end will get paid and have NO RESPONSIBILITY to what happens to the company. This shows the lack of judgement on mgts side and will be the death of FLOPS. I do wish it would just die and go away.
The latest nightmare out of CGF has been the pilot terminations of 70 great pilots. I know many of them.
They had to let pilots go because they mismanaged the business and lost owners and therefor have to sell airplanes. It was a low attack from the company the way they did it. I hope the remaining pilots hold the company to the strict standards the 1108 has set.

 

[FLSTCI]

I've heard at least one name that I knew. Does anyone have a definitive list of the 70-odd pilots that they would be willing to post or PM?

 

[skyismyoffice]

I've heard at least one name that I knew. Does anyone have a definitive list of the 70-odd pilots that they would be willing to post or PM?

Don't want to post the whole list. PM me if you have some names and I will check. I think we have identified most of the casualties.

 

[flyjetspeed]

Most of the share owners have been gone-perhaps to NJ, CS, FX and XO. You just can't treat your customers that way and stay in business. Mostly card owners now and they even piss off that group.
...the death of FLOPS. I do wish it would just die and go away.
The latest nightmare out of CGF has been the pilot terminations of 70 great pilots. I know many of them.
They had to let pilots go because they mismanaged the business and lost owners and therefor have to sell airplanes. It was a low attack from the company the way they did it. I hope the remaining pilots hold the company to the strict standards the 1108 has set.

And I hope all 70 pilots get hired at NJ and give all those owners we got from FO the best service they know how! All of these pilots are probably the lucky ones for getting off the ship before the bow goes under! Lets hope the rescue vessel is the USS NETJETS!!

 

[skyismyoffice]

Definitely no prefferential treatment...

Just heard from another friend (FLOPs pilot) that he didn't get hired at NJA. They can be very picky now, and they are.

 

[flyjetspeed]

Just heard from another friend (FLOPs pilot) that he didn't get hired at NJA. They can be very picky now, and they are.

Even so, a Pilot with previous Frac. experience would be more competitive than any other background. No?

 

[learflyer]

Even so, a Pilot with previous Frac. experience would be more competitive than any other background. No?

Sort of I guess. I was at FLOPS for 6+ years, and was turned down by NJA. In fact, in my interview class, out of 12, 4 were frac pilots. All but one, a Mesa guy, was hired! . Nothing against him, he was a good guy, but dang.

In fact, one guy was a standards captain for CS who was turned down. Who knows, I got a 100% on my test ( thanks to the gouge), sim went pretty well also. I think I might have blown the HR portion with some of the ridiculous questions.

 

[dime line]

Sort of I guess. I was at FLOPS for 6+ years, and was turned down by NJA. In fact, in my interview class, out of 12, 4 were frac pilots. All but one, a Mesa guy, was hired! . Nothing against him, he was a good guy, but dang.

In fact, one guy was a standards captain for CS who was turned down. Who knows, I got a 100% on my test ( thanks to the gouge), sim went pretty well also. I think I might have blown the HR portion with some of the ridiculous questions.

I figured you would make it!! Crap that sucks. Should have opened up some pimp smack on them, then you would have gotten in

 

[chingaso]

more tough business decisions

I think the owners know more than we might think. I remember sitting in the back of the plane for 20 minutes while an owner literally yelled most of that time, not at me, but to me about how pissed he was at the company. He said (yelled) "a fish stinks from the head down..." and I had to agree with him.

There for several months, not a single rotation would go by where we didn't show up with something broken on the airlplane; the crapper (for a 4.5 hour leg), the Airshow (when the owner specifically stated that the Airshow/DVD MUST work), the APU broken (in PBI mid-summer; a recent stroke victim), 2 broken tray-tables (with catered salads for 5), even the wrong seats installed in the Hawker so the video screen was completely covered up (stupid). And each of these rotations at least 3 owners, at least 3 (and I"m not exaggerating) would tell me they were leaving Flight Options for NetJets or were going to buy their own airplane. But their number one complaint? They were sick and tired of being lied to by Flight Options.

One guy, and XP owner who we "rescued" in an 800because his XP was allegedly down, went onto Flight Aware and saw his "broken" XP leaving on a trip 1 hour BEFORE it was supposed to be picking him up and tracked it flying all over the country all day long(good ol' Front Row at its finest!). Tell me that is "good business" or a "tough business decision." He told me, and I quote, "this company lies consistently to two groups of people: owners and pilots, and does so on a regular basis." What was I supposed to say?

What am I supposed to say to an owner who has been waiting for 6 hours to be rescued (while Owner Services had been telling him the whole time that we were just 45 minutes out) when in reality we were doing other trips before we came and got him? What do I say to the man when he is just trying to get home from the same event his buddy was already home from via NetJets? How do I explain to him that the OCC, once again, built the schedule backwards to get 13:59 out of the crew, and they had timed out before they could reach the poor man? And that they had known HOURS before his originally scheduled departure that this was going to happen, and yet lied to him and told him his Beechjet had broken? You just can't keep lieing to people, intentionally, as a practice, and expect things to get better. These people aren't stupid, yet Cleveland has deluded itself into believing that they are smarter than 1) their owners, and 2) their employees.

You can piss off airline customers and there will always be more to take their place. You just can't do that with millionaires, there's not that many of them, and they all know each other. Plus, many of these people have been in aviation for a long time, and know more about it and airplanes than the little girl in Owner Services, or more than the guys in scheduling, and most likely more than the CEO of the company. Lieing to customers, intentionally, day-in and day-out, isn't a necessary business decision, or at least it shouldn't be. I think Mike likes the JetPass cards as much as he does because it allows him the freedom to disregard our passengers with the same indifference to their inconvenience as he did the airline passengers when he was bankrupting those little commuter airlines he used to be in charge of.

We can handle an MEL in the cockpit, but these people pay huge money for the DVD player, the APU, the freakin' lavatory, the cabin lights, their seats (!), and for God's sake the tray tables to work!!!! These aren't "passenger convenience items." The coffee pot is a passenger convenience item, the flightphone is a passenger convenience item, but toilets and DVDs and tray-tables and airconditioning are very important things in 'their' world on board the airplane that they expect to work! Other than going fast, this is what they are paying a lot of money for, and what no one in Cleveland can seem to comprehend (or, they might get it and just simply not care).

Flight Options has run off more business than it can attract. Tell me that kind of crap is "just business." I'm sick of being embarrassed of the planes I have to present to these millionaire owners. Their peers are boarding shiny clean jets that don't have 5-10 orange stickers on the panel or throughout the cabin. My pax board planes that look like freighters, rarely have a matching radome, headliners falling loose, MEL'd seats and tray tables, MEL'd toilets, rarely a working flightphone, ugly stained carpets I wouldn't let my own children play on let alone someone else's, torn seat cushions, and broken APUs in the dead of winter in Green Bay or the peak of summer in Miami.

Maintenance can't or won't or isn't allowed to fix these airplanes because scheduling is driving the company, or Sanjay is trying to meet a metric. The cart has been in front of the horse for so long, on purpose, that I'm afraid the damage to the company's reputation is irrepairable. That is NOT good business, and the Sheering Gang is doing this stuff intentionally! They have their own agenda and the owners be damned (as well as the employees). Flight Options is masquerading as a service business when in fact it is only a facade; its a money machine that just looks like an aviation company. No wonder the pilots are pissed! It used to be a good company with a lot of promise, a company to be proud of. Putting fancy corporate names on a sh!t sandwich won't make it taste any better to the end user.

Speaking of, is it true that Sanjay's wife was (nepotently) put in charge of marketing? Is that what happened over there? Whats up with that?

Bottom line: the owners know, at least a lot of them do, exactly what the deal is with Flight Options and its pilots, and they won't be renewing their contracts. Mike can spin that however he wants to, and convince the Board that they were "unprofitable contracts" or part of an "acceptable owner attrition rate" 'til he's blue in the face. Oh yeah: owners could care less about the "Owner Feeback Cards." Those cards are for marketing and for nothing else, period. They are NOT used to improve service, at all. If an owner is angry, he will get on the phone, or write a letter (cc-ing his attorney), not fill out a silly card. When they DO fill out a card, its because the flight was miraculously on-time, and mostly because the pilots helped them have a good experience, or salvaged a bad one (like they do day after day). So Mike gets 20 cards returned to the company in a given month, disregards the fact that the pilots are being praised, then tells the press that "100% of our Owner Feedback Cards are positive!" and waxes congratulatory about our "unprecedented customer service."

Flight Options pilots: how many times have you had owners tell you that they know how bad things have gotten for the pilots, and that it has been the pilots that have been the only good thing in their experience with this company? I know I've heard that more than many times over the past 3 years.

 

[jetwash]

Speaking of, is it true that Sanjay's wife was (nepotently) put in charge of marketing? Is that what happened over there? Whats up with that?


I've had owners tell me that they know how bad things have gotten for the pilots, and that it has been the pilots that have been the only good thing in their experience with Flight Options.

Yes it is true that Sanjay's wife is in charge of marketing.

As for the rest of your post, you are 100% correct.
I could not agree with you more on your description on what is going on at FLOPS.

It is sad that, there are managers who only have a vision for the company that lasts as long as their contract. They could care less about the owners whose contracts end in 3 years since their contract ends in 2 years. They will leave those problems to the next CEO that takes his place.

 

[netjetwife]

Chingaso, excellent post!! I found it very informative--every word. Thanks for taking the time to help others see the situation so clearly. If the company is saved it will be thanks to the efforts of employees as professional as yourself. The Options pilots are a great investment and the best advertisement for FltOps. Successful managers making sound business decisions would recognize that indisputable fact. Inept ones have to have it spelled out for them and that takes longer. Luckily, a moderator can help make sure they pay attention at the bargaining table.
Hang in there everyone!
Netjetwife

 

[learflyer]

I think the owners know more than we might think. I remember sitting in the back of the plane for 20 minutes while an owner literally yelled most of that time, not at me, but to me about how pissed he was at the company. He said (yelled) "a fish stinks from the head down..." and I had to agree with him.

There for several months, not a single rotation would go by where we didn't show up with something broken on the airlplane; the crapper (for a 4.5 hour leg), the Airshow (when the owner specifically stated that the Airshow/DVD MUST work), the APU broken (in PBI mid-summer; a recent stroke victim), 2 broken tray-tables (with catered salads for 5), even the wrong seats installed in the Hawker so the video screen was completely covered up (stupid). And each of these rotations at least 3 owners, at least 3 (and I"m not exaggerating) would tell me they were leaving Flight Options for NetJets or were going to buy their own airplane. But their number one complaint? They were sick and tired of being lied to by Flight Options.

One guy, and XP owner who we "rescued" in an 800because his XP was allegedly down, went onto Flight Aware and saw his "broken" XP leaving on a trip 1 hour BEFORE it was supposed to be picking him up and tracked it flying all over the country all day long(good ol' Front Row at its finest!). Tell me that is "good business" or a "tough business decision." He told me, and I quote, "this company lies consistently to two groups of people: owners and pilots, and does so on a regular basis." What was I supposed to say?

What am I supposed to say to an owner who has been waiting for 6 hours to be rescued (while Owner Services had been telling him the whole time that we were just 45 minutes out) when in reality we were doing other trips before we came and got him? What do I say to the man when he is just trying to get home from the same event his buddy was already home from via NetJets? How do I explain to him that the OCC, once again, built the schedule backwards to get 13:59 out of the crew, and they had timed out before they could reach the poor man? And that they had known HOURS before his originally scheduled departure that this was going to happen, and yet lied to him and told him his Beechjet had broken? You just can't keep lieing to people, intentionally, as a practice, and expect things to get better. These people aren't stupid, yet Cleveland has deluded itself into believing that they are smarter than 1) their owners, and 2) their employees.

You can piss off airline customers and there will always be more to take their place. You just can't do that with millionaires, there's not that many of them, and they all know each other. Plus, many of these people have been in aviation for a long time, and know more about it and airplanes than the little girl in Owner Services, or more than the guys in scheduling, and most likely more than the CEO of the company. Lieing to customers, intentionally, day-in and day-out, isn't a necessary business decision, or at least it shouldn't be. I think Mike likes the JetPass cards as much as he does because it allows him the freedom to disregard our passengers with the same indifference to their inconvenience as he did the airline passengers when he was bankrupting those little commuter airlines he used to be in charge of.

We can handle an MEL in the cockpit, but these people pay huge money for the DVD player, the APU, the freakin' lavatory, the cabin lights, their seats (!), and for God's sake the tray tables to work!!!! These aren't "passenger convenience items." The coffee pot is a passenger convenience item, the flightphone is a passenger convenience item, but toilets and DVDs and tray-tables and airconditioning are very important things in 'their' world on board the airplane that they expect to work! Other than going fast, this is what they are paying a lot of money for, and what no one in Cleveland can seem to comprehend (or, they might get it and just simply not care).

Flight Options has run off more business than it can attract. Tell me that kind of crap is "just business." I'm sick of being embarrassed of the planes I have to present to these millionaire owners. Their peers are boarding shiny clean jets that don't have 5-10 orange stickers on the panel or throughout the cabin. My pax board planes that look like freighters, rarely have a matching radome, headliners falling loose, MEL'd seats and tray tables, MEL'd toilets, rarely a working flightphone, ugly stained carpets I wouldn't let my own children play on let alone someone else's, torn seat cushions, and broken APUs in the dead of winter in Green Bay or the peak of summer in Miami.

Maintenance can't or won't or isn't allowed to fix these airplanes because scheduling is driving the company, or Sanjay is trying to meet a metric. The cart has been in front of the horse for so long, on purpose, that I'm afraid the damage to the company's reputation is irrepairable. That is NOT good business, and the Sheering Gang is doing this stuff intentionally! They have their own agenda and the owners be damned (as well as the employees). Flight Options is masquerading as a service business when in fact it is only a facade; its a money machine that just looks like an aviation company. No wonder the pilots are pissed! It used to be a good company with a lot of promise, a company to be proud of. Putting fancy corporate names on a sh!t sandwich won't make it taste any better to the end user.

Speaking of, is it true that Sanjay's wife was (nepotently) put in charge of marketing? Is that what happened over there? Whats up with that?

Bottom line: the owners know, at least a lot of them do, exactly what the deal is with Flight Options and its pilots, and they won't be renewing their contracts. Mike can spin that however he wants to, and convince the Board that they were "unprofitable contracts" or part of an "acceptable owner attrition rate" 'til he's blue in the face. Oh yeah: owners could care less about the "Owner Feeback Cards." Those cards are for marketing and for nothing else, period. They are NOT used to improve service, at all. If an owner is angry, he will get on the phone, or write a letter (cc-ing his attorney), not fill out a silly card. When they DO fill out a card, its because the flight was miraculously on-time, and mostly because the pilots helped them have a good experience, or salvaged a bad one (like they do day after day). So Mike gets 20 cards returned to the company in a given month, disregards the fact that the pilots are being praised, then tells the press that "100% of our Owner Feedback Cards are positive!" and waxes congratulatory about our "unprecedented customer service."

Flight Options pilots: how many times have you had owners tell you that they know how bad things have gotten for the pilots, and that it has been the pilots that have been the only good thing in their experience with this company? I know I've heard that more than many times over the past 3 years.

nice post. I actually saved it in my favorites to remind myself that leaving was a good thing.

 

[dime line]

I talked to 3 owners that I know personally, they were laughing at the whole deal, and I did tell them that the senior experienced captains were being fired and that guys were being hired with no jet time and very low total time.

The beautiful thing is I had an attorney that was looking for a card and I talked him into NOT buying a FLOPS card. I really think when I told him about lay offs that did it for him. His only words were "doesn't sound good".

 

[EX_CV580FR8Dawg]

I talked to 3 owners that I know personally, they were laughing at the whole deal, and I did tell them that the senior experienced captains were being fired and that guys were being hired with no jet time and very low total time.

The beautiful thing is I had an attorney that was looking for a card and I talked him into NOT buying a FLOPS card. I really think when I told him about lay offs that did it for him. His only words were "doesn't sound good".

the feb class I was in ranged from 2,500- 10,000 hrs. I was the only one with any jet time. I think the subsequent classes were fairly low and some were pretty inexperienced, were they not, dime?