Do RJs make money?

[BigPappa]

Secret,

Since you are the smart guy you tell the world how to come up with the cost figures!

 

[BigPappa]

My comparison is on a leg by leg basis on the RJ.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

There is no way to know that. You can not just look at what the airline is charging for a round trip ticket between IAH and CVG when the person is actually going from IAH to CHS. On Delta's website they are charging $243 from IAH to CVG round trip and $447 round trip from CVG to CHS round trip. But a round trip from IAH to CHS, with a connection in CVG is only $332. All I did was take 8 hour of flying and multiply it by your average cost of $2400 per hour to operate. I then devided by $332 ( the cost to fly round trip from IAH to CHS) and came up with 58 people required to break even. It is way too complicated to figure out using Delta website and a calculator.

 

[BigPappa]

You are taking the furthest legs. You need to average!

 

[Secret Squirrel]

You are taking the furthest legs. You need to average!

Average what? Both of those legs were LONGER than what your average was and the average price per leg was around $80 per leg. That is just a trip I picked at random that was two weeks out. You give me an example.

 

[jehtplane]

Ok smart guy if RJ's are making so much money and break even with 18 pax then why are all the airlines Bankrupt? The fuel spike would have raised break even a passenger or two. FlyI had loads of at least 50%. How come they are going under?
There is my research.

Piss poor management, ridiculously low fares, high fuel costs, and the list goes on and on!

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Piss poor management, ridiculously low fares, high fuel costs, and the list goes on and on!

Now that is a statement I will agree with 100%.

 

[BigPappa]

ATL-ISO @ 392.50 round trip ($196.25 one way). flight time 1.4 hr. 2400*1.4/196

break even point = 18 pax.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Mike Boyd should quit now. You guys obviously have it all figured out.

 

[BigPappa]

Bender why don't you add something constructive!

 

[Secret Squirrel]

ATL-ISO @ 392.50 round trip ($196.25 one way). flight time 1.4 hr. 2400*1.4/196

break even point = 18 pax.

The problem is you do not know how many people on your flight are only going ATL-ISO. I would guess only about 10%. The rest of the people are CONNECTING from somewhere else.

What about the guy that is going from MKE-ISO and connecting through ATL. He payed $420 per the delta website. Are you still attributing $392 to your flight when Delta flew him from MKE-ATL? That is very flawed logic.

This is my last post on this subject. I am not saying that the RJ is a total goat and I think certain markets it can make money. But your theory is not correct.

SS

 

[BenderGonzales]

There is nothing constructive to add to this argument. "RJs" have been around for decades. Up until the mid-90's they were simply airplanes.

DC9-10s, Bac 1-11s, BAe146, F28, F100... all "RJs".

Then a Canadian company decided to start marketing THEIR 50 seat platform to commuters... where employee costs were a fraction of what they were at the mainline.

Management was thrilled. Lower costs, but with the same revenue stream. The customers didn't get an "I have to fly on an RJ" discount.

So yeah. These things may be profitable. But it has NOTHING to do with the vehicles economics. They are profitable on the backs of the poor shmucks who fly them for pennies.

Want to visit the real baseline economics for the RJ? Leverage the total cost for the flight over the number of seats.

More seats? Lower cost per seat mile.

How do the airlines correct for that? By going out to the "Comedy Air Academy's" of the world and finding kids who are willing to sell their soul to strap on a uniform (without the hat of course) and go fly a jet-plane.

Was this at all constructive? No. But I feel better.

 

[say again]

Quick answer- NO!!!! These airfares are ridiculous, and the airlines need to wake up and start charging the flying public whatever it takes to make a profit. ALL airlines must be in on this, but unfortunately I don't see it ever happening.

 

[bvt1151]

Back to basics! Too many financial analysts are trying to reinvent the wheel in the aviation industry. The fact remains that it’s still just a matter of simple arithmetic. Let’s compare a CRJ 200 in this example: The Total operating cost of this RJ is approx. $2400.00 per hour. You can figure that the average ticket costs approx. $350.00 per person (call it a round trip). At our company the average CRJ flight is approx. 1.3 hr. Load factor most of the time is 23 or better. In this case (3120/175=17.8) the load to required to break even is 18 pax. With this in mind you can say that we are making money most of time for our big Mother!

Wow, your numbers are way off. First off, a CRJ 200 costs closer to $1500 per hour, and most passengers on an RJ connect, which means you have to divide the fare by 4, not 2...less taxes.

CRJ Operating Costs (about 3/4 from the bottom):
http://www.airlineempires.net/mambo/index.php?aircraft=629&carrier=OO&year=2005&quarter=2&option=com_content&task=view&id=51&Itemid=31http://www.airlineempires.net////ma...&option=com_content&task=view&id=51&Itemid=31

 

[BigPappa]

bvt,

read the post before you post!