"do Not Forget" By A Us Marine

[CL60]

Good points by all but the underlying "never forget" theme and the patriotic attitude of MGySgt. Evans is what moved me to paste his thoughts on this board.

I'm not one for too much political debate either but one word can best describe our interests in the ME region. Oil. Without it, who knows what would happen to our society? They want to sell it to us and we want to buy it from them. There is only one problem, without outside help, they cannot maintain stability in their region on their own. Their long history of war has proven that without a doubt.

I believe we are doing, and have done our best to maintain this stability, while trying to maintain good relations with our friends over there, while at the same time keeping our own interests in mind. It is a tough, unforgiving, and thankless job for the thousands of diplomats, politicians, and warriors out there. They have my support and gratitude.

Never forget,

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: Typhoon1244

I have read numerous post from you trying to defend your liberal point of view...

You evidently haven't read my posts very carefully. I've been trying to defend my liberal and conservative points of view. You want to hear my conservative side again, since apparently you missed it the first time? Fine.

Yeah, I think we should get out of the Middle East...but on the way out, let's get rid of Mecca. Give everybody twenty-four hours to get out, then put a couple BGM-109's into the place. They want to attack the heart of our culture (D.C. and New York)? Fine. Let's retaliate against the heart of theirs.

You say the people living in Mecca are innocent? Really? What were the people in New York and Washington so guilty of? The Israelis have been carrying out retaliations like this for years. What are we pus_y-footing around for?

In the end it is liberals like you that will so vehemently oppose action against Hussein and others like him...

Dead wrong. I think Saddam needs to be cancelled. Let's make him go away. Having him and his regime around is like having a knife hanging over our heads...but it needed to be done twelve years ago! Instead, George I left him in power so that future presidents could go rough him up whenever their popularity numbers start going down hill. (No, I'm sure that was not really George's intent...but that's the way it worked out.) Action against Saddam is and has been necessary, but the way George II is going about it is hypocritical at best. If he really felt this strongly about Saddam, he should have begun the attack after his first day in office.

Somebody mentioned oil. As I've said before (again, you weren't reading very carefully) Russia is capable of more than matching the flow of oil we receive from the M/E. I'll bet if we made a credible threat of ceasing our consumption of Middle Eastern oil, the Saudis would put a stop to Muslim terrorism really quick.

In the end, I am a bleeding-heart Liberal who says we should stop screwing around in the Middle East. I am also a hard-core Conservative who feels like our reaction to 9/11 has been weak and ineffectual. In the end, I am an American who was stunned by last year's attack, but remains mature enough to grasp several points of view.

I'm frightened by people like Dirt (interesting handle, by the way...) who are so simple-minded that they can only see one side of any issue. Before you go flaming me for a view I've expressed and start slapping labels on me, get to know all my views, okay?

"Never forget." I think too many of us already have. Go get one of the tapes that are coming out now (HBO's In Memoriam New York is the best) and sit down and watch it. Remember how you felt when you saw a twin-engined, wide-bodied expression of our country's superiority smashed into a building. Every time a political discussion like this one rages out of control, watch it.

It's important to remember.

 

[chawbein]

"George II" was talking about regime change in iraq during the 2000 election. Watch the debates again, especially the one in St. Louis. This is no surprise if your memory is longer then a year (not meant to be a slam towards typhoon).

 

[DIRT]

Typhoon1244

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In the end, I am a bleeding-heart Liberal who says we should stop screwing around in the Middle East.
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Well I say we all sit around oblivious to the rest of the world and wait for the next attack.

 

[StaySeated]

Not a huge deal but...

Master Gunnery Seargant is not referred to as "Gunney". If you do shorten it, "Master Guns" is more appropriate. The rank contains three stripes up and four stripes down, with a bursting bomb in the middle and looks as bad as the few people that earn the right to wear it. It is the highest achievable enlisted rank in the USMC, equal to a Sgt. Major. The above post is excellent and I am not trying to get off track or rip on anybody, just felt the need to mention the difference.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: Not a huge deal but...

Originally posted by StaySeated
Master Gunnery Seargant is not referred to as "Gunney."

That's embarassing; I was trying to sound "salty." I guess you can tell I was never a Marine. Thanks for the correction; I'll try to remember that.

Originally posted by chawbien
"George II" was talking about regime change in iraq during the 2000 election...

The key phrase being "during the election." He didn't do much about Iraq between his inauguration and 9/11, did he? (He's not alone; President Clinton didn't either.)

Originally posted by DIRT
Well I say we all sit around oblivious to the rest of the world and wait for the next attack.

Ending our dependence on Middle Eastern oil does not mean isolating ourselves from the world. We had men and equipment (aircraft carriers, A.F. fighters, etc.) all over the Middle East on September 11th. I didn't notice that it made a h_ll of a lot of difference in New York and Washington.

There are basically two "sides" in the Middle East: Israel, and everybody else. The U.S. has been maintaining relations with both sides for fifty years! What would we have thought of a country that traded openly with us and Japan between '41 and '45? Am I the only one who sees how foolish this is?

Here, again, is my point: our Middle East policies have been fouled up since Israel was established, and 9/11 is just one consequence of this state of affairs.

(DIRT, I really don't think you're reading my posts. Oh, and I liked the way you chose one random sentence in my reply and used it out of context to make me look like a fool. Nice job! You must have graduated from the Rush Limbaugh school of debate.)

 

[DIRT]

Typhoon

Ok you caught me I'm just pushing your buttons since you referred to me as "simple minded" but our reliance on Middle Eastern oil is not going to end nor will our support of Isreal, well I take that back our support of Isreal will end as soon as Arabs begin to contribute more money to our politicians political campaigns then our allegiances will change. Right now our politicians (both republicans and democrats) go to the highest bidders.

Rush Limbaugh...... my hero.

 

[p3jacobs]

Keep this going until every living American has read it and memorized it so we don't make the same mistake again.

I'd like to bag on Jane Fonda, but here's the old text from LtCol North's testimony to the Senate.

"Did you not recently spend close to $60,000 for a
home security system?"
Oliver replied, "Yes I did, Sir."
The senator continued, trying to get a laugh out of the audience, "Isn't this just a little excessive?"
"No sir," continued Oliver.
"No. And why not?"
"Because the life of my family and I were threatened."
"Threatened? By who."
"By a terrorist, sir."
"Terrorist? What terrorist could possibly scare you that much?"
"His name is OSAMA bin Laden."
At this point the senator tried to repeat the name, but couldn't pronounce it. A couple of people laughed at the attempt. Then the senator continued.
"Why are you so afraid of this man?"
"Because sir, he is the most evil person alive that I know of."
"And what do you recommend we do about him?"
"If it were me I would recommend an assassin team be formed to eliminate him and his men from the face of the earth."
The senator disagreed with this approach and that was all they showed of the clip.
It's scary when you think 15 years ago the government was aware of bin Laden and his potential threat to the security of the world. I guess like all great tyrants they start small but if left untended spread like the virus they truly are.

 

[Chunk]

Sorry...

This is an urban legend....It wasn't UBL, it was Abu Nidal. Here is the snopes.com link to the actually story including an email from Ollie himself about the matter:

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/north.htm


Gotta love snopes....

Not trying to burst bubbles, just setting the record straight,

Chunk

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: Typhoon

Ok you caught me I'm just pushing your buttons since you referred to me as "simple minded"...

Well, you are a pilot, right? I apologize, but let's make a deal. You stop using the word "liberal" as if it were an epithet, and I'll stop calling you simple-minded."

Right now our politicians (both Republicans and Democrats) go to the highest bidders.

At least we agree on something....

Rush Limbaugh...my hero.

See? I knew you were simple minded! (Just kidding...)