DL vs. AAI Part...

[twepilot]

73pylot,

Not to get nasty here, but get a clue. Anyone but a moron would agree that their costs per asm will only go up after exiting BK. Please do some research if you don't believe me. For the record I'm not talking about a micro scale..I'm talking macro...years...get it. If you are so determined in your belief that their cost per asm will stay the same or go down, why don't we put up a 1000 bucks on the deal. Put your money where you mouth is or go away little ant.

RV

 

[737 Pylt]

73pylot,

Not to get nasty here, but get a clue. Anyone but a moron would agree that their costs per asm will only go up after exiting BK.

Ok, not to get nasty back Richard, or should I just call you dick.... but what you said was that day 2 after BK, DL's casm's will go up!

Please do some research if you don't believe me. For the record I'm not talking about a micro scale..I'm talking macro...years...get it.

Maybe you should have explained that in your origional post!

If you are so determined in your belief that their cost per asm will stay the same or go down, why don't we put up a 1000 bucks on the deal. Put your money where you mouth is or go away little ant.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but based on your logic, so will Air Trans. DL already has lower casm's than Air Tran. I guess we will see Air Tran continue to suffer losses then as well??

737

 

[twepilot]

Not a true comparison of costs currently... Our non-fuel casm is lower than swa...whats Dls non fuel casm?....the 2nd day thing was figureatively....lastly, do I know you??

RV

 

[400ADude]

Not a true comparison of costs currently... Our non-fuel casm is lower than swa...whats Dls non fuel casm?....the 2nd day thing was figureatively....lastly, do I know you??

RV

You probably do know him if you go through TSA in Atlanta. He's the fat guy working the x-ray machine.

 

[BigMeat]

You guys have to remember how Airtran started. It flew Delta routes and took market share that way. That is competition. I also agree that Delta let this go on like this for a while to block any other "major" participants from occupying ATL gate space. After 9/11 they could not afford to stem Airtrans growth. You guys have to remember how much money these legacies make when they are doing well. They also lose alot of money then they are not. Thats money to compete. Airtran and JB know this. Thats why when AMR and Delta were on their knees the LCCs knew that they had to grow real fast and grasp market share before these giants woke up and were fighting again. Will Delta lose money on Airtran routes? Probably, but if they didnt do that now they would lose even more if they didnt slow or stop Airtrans growth. Airtran grew very fast so that direct competition on x percentage of routes would not be as devestating when Delta was back. Lets see if it works. Time will tell.

 

[twepilot]

just got back from a fact finding web surfing melee....dl most assuredly does not have a lower casm than aai...no matter how you compare it. my offer to put up a grand still stands...what about you?

RV

 

[737 Pylt]

You probably do know him if you go through TSA in Atlanta. He's the fat guy working the x-ray machine.

That's no way to talk about your father! Besides, how did you get out of your trailer anyway?


737

 

[Hpilot]

Hey 737 Dork,

We all know how well Delta's price wars work. Let's see, while hemorrhaging cash you tried to put US Airways under a few years ago. That worked real well. Brilliant strategic planning on your part.

 

[800Dog]

Hey 737 Dork,

We all know how well Delta's price wars work. Let's see, while hemorrhaging cash you tried to put US Airways under a few years ago. That worked real well. Brilliant strategic planning on your part.

Your degree is from which community college?

 

[737 Pylt]

Your degree is from which community college?

LMAO!!!!:laugh: :laugh:
He also has a side business!!

737

 

[twepilot]

I'm waiting...........

RV

 

[UALX727]

Here is a chart from a recent AirTran presentation comparing CASM of several carriers:

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/64/64267/AAI_0207/sld005.htm

 

[instructordude]

Here is a chart from a recent AirTran presentation comparing CASM of several carriers:

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/64/64267/AAI_0207/sld005.htm

Interesting chart UALX727. Why does Cal lead the pack and yet make money. Anybody help me with this one?

 

[mad691]

because they have better RASM.

 

[Heavy Set]

Hey 737 Dork,

We all know how well Delta's price wars work. Let's see, while hemorrhaging cash you tried to put US Airways under a few years ago. That worked real well. Brilliant strategic planning on your part.

I liked how America West tried to do transcon flights with your A319s. How did that work for you? LAX and SFO to JFK, IAD, BOS.... There are lots of failed strategies out there. Delta has brought it's costs down, and have now put the right sized airplanes on most of it's routes( Md88s on East Coast north and south routes instead of Song 757s), while expanding the International side with very little competition. The new strategy has a lot more legs, and potential for profit.

How's that integration going for you guys by the way?

 

[737 Pylt]

I'm waiting...........

RV

Ok, the data that I have shows DL's casm less than .07 per mile. But it is based on legs more than 700 nm. Because of all the short haul flying Air Tran does, and the long haul flying that DL does (DL's avg leg is 1400 miles), I'd say its a split (Meaning we're both right, and we're both wrong).

Happy?

737

 

[twepilot]

DELTA AIR LINES, INC.
Debtor and Debtor-In Possession
Statistical Summary
(Unaudited)​

Year Ended​

December 31,​

Percent​

Statistical Summary:

2006​

2005​

Change​

Consolidated:
Revenue Passenger Miles (millions) (a)

116,133​

119,954​

-3.2%​

Available Seat Miles (millions) (a)

147,995​

156,793​

-5.6%​

Passenger Mile Yield (a)

13.46​

¢

12.19​

¢

10.4%​

Passenger Mile Yield – excluding special items – see Note 1 (a)

13.53​

¢

12.19​

¢

11.0%​

Operating Revenue Per Available Seat Mile (a)

11.60​

¢

10.33​

¢

12.3%​

Passenger Revenue Per Available Seat Mile (a)

10.56​

¢

9.33​

¢

13.2%​

Passenger Revenue Per Available Seat Mile – excluding special items – see Note 1 (a)

10.61​

¢

9.33​

¢

13.7%​

Operating Cost Per Available Seat Mile (a)

11.56​

¢

11.60​

¢

-0.3%​

Operating Cost Per Available Seat Mile - excluding special items - see Note 1 (a)

11.47​

¢

11.04​

¢

3.9%​

Operating Cost Per Available Seat Mile - excluding fuel expense and special items - see Note 1(a)

8.56​

¢

8.31​

¢

3.0%​

Passenger Load Factor (a)

78.5​

%

76.5​

%

2.0​

pts
Breakeven Passenger Load Factor (a)

78.2​

%

87.0​

%

-8.8​

pts
Breakeven Passenger Load Factor - excluding special items- see Note 1 (a)

76.6​

%

82.3​

%

-5.7​

pts
Passengers Enplaned (thousands) (a)

106,649​

118,853​

-10.3%​

Fuel Gallons Consumed (millions)

2,111​

2,492​

-15.3%​

Average Price Per Fuel Gallon, net of hedging activity

$2.04​

$1.71​

19.3%​

Number of Aircraft in Fleet, End of Period

600​

649​

-7.6%​

Full-Time Equivalent Employees, End of Period

51,300​

55,600​

-7.7%​

Mainline:
Revenue Passenger Miles (millions)

98,911​

103,742​

-4.7%​

Available Seat Miles (millions)

125,480​

133,935​

-6.3%​

Operating Cost Per Available Seat Mile

10.46​

¢

10.88​

¢

-3.9%​

Operating Cost Per Available Seat Mile - excluding special items- see Note 1

10.36​

¢

10.22​

¢

1.4%​

Operating Cost Per Available Seat Mile - excluding fuel expense and special items - see Note 1

7.20​

¢

7.49​

¢

-3.9%​

Number of Aircraft in Fleet, End of Period

440​

480​

-8.3%​

AirTran Holdings, Inc.
Consolidated Statements of Operations
(In thousands, except per share data and statistical summary)
(Unaudited)

Twelve Months Ended
December 31, Percent
2006 2005 Change
----------- ------------ ---------
Operating Revenues:
Passenger $1,816,179 $1,397,295 30.0
Cargo 3,861 4,363 (11.5)
Other 73,315 48,886 50.0
----------- ------------
Total operating
revenues 1,893,355 1,450,544 30.5

Operating Expenses:
Salaries, wages and
benefits 390,348 329,299 18.5
Aircraft fuel 675,336 462,672 46.0
Aircraft rent 230,699 192,394 19.9
Distribution 69,888 67,395 3.7
Maintenance, materials and
repairs 149,448 101,964 46.6
Landing fees and other
rents 100,761 80,774 24.7
Aircraft insurance and
security services 25,678 23,100 11.2
Marketing and advertising 44,792 36,400 23.1
Depreciation 30,078 20,224 48.7
Other operating 134,194 112,832 18.9
----------- ------------
Total operating
expenses 1,851,222 1,427,054 29.7
----------- ------------
Operating Income 42,133 23,490 79.4

Other (Income) Expense:
Interest income (21,714) (11,771) 84.5
Interest expense 50,861 30,787 65.2
Capitalized interest (12,943) (8,550) 51.4
----------- -------------
Other (income) expense, net 16,204 10,466 54.8
----------- -------------
Income Before Income Taxes 25,929 13,024 99.1

Income Tax Expense 10,415 4,948 -
----------- -------------

Net Income $15,514 $8,076 92.1
=========== =============

Income per Common Share
Basic $0.17 $0.09 88.9
Diluted $0.17 $0.09 88.9

Weighted-average Shares
Outstanding
Basic 90,504 87,337 3.6
Diluted 92,436 90,185 2.5

EBITDA $72,211 $43,714 65.2
Operating margin 2.2 percent 1.6 percent 0.6 pts.
Net margin 0.8 percent 0.6 percent 0.2 pts.

Twelve Month Statistical
Summary:
Revenue passengers 20,051,219 16,638,214 20.5
Revenue passenger miles
(000s) 13,836,378 11,301,534 22.4
Available seat miles
(000s) 19,007,416 15,369,505 23.7
Block hours 463,854 383,193 21.0
Passenger load factor 72.8 percent 73.5 percent (0.7)pts.
Break-even load factor 71.7 percent 72.9 percent (1.2)pts.
Average fare $90.58 $83.98 7.9
Average yield per RPM 13.13 cents 12.36 cents 6.2
Passenger revenue per ASM 9.56 cents 9.09 cents 5.2
Operating cost per ASM 9.74 cents 9.28 cents 5.0
Fuel price neutral cost per
ASM 9.15 cents 9.28 cents (1.4)
Non-fuel operating cost per
ASM 6.19 cents 6.27 cents (1.3)
Average cost of aircraft
fuel per gallon 217.20 cents 180.98 cents 20.0
Gallons of fuel burned 310,925,717 255,642,845 21.6
Weighted-average number
of aircraft 116 96 20.8


please show me where your getting the 7 cents a mile from....

RV

 

[SkiFishFly]

What is the cost for the RJs?

Being relatively new to this game (and trying to understand more), I wonder if the costs which Delta quotes are for mainline only? Do these costs per available seat mile etc include all the regional costs?
The costs you see in the aai numbers above are for all of our flying. Just want to make sure we are comparing apples to apples. Delta puts lots of RJ flying up against us. My basic brain thinks the casm for an RJ is a lot more than the casm for one of our 717s or 737s.
Anyone know the answer?

 

[twepilot]

ski,

I believe that is the difference between "mainline" and "consolidated" above. Not sure though..

RV

 

[twepilot]

I do agree with you though that the metrics for an RJ thesedays are more costly than for a 717.

RV

 

[737 Pylt]

I do agree with you though that the metrics for an RJ thesedays are more costly than for a 717.

RV

Much more. That's what I was showing. The casm's on an rj are over .20 per mile. That's why ACA/Independence didn't last too long!

737

 

[SkiFishFly]

Much more. That's what I was showing. The casm's on an rj are over .20 per mile. That's why ACA/Independence didn't last too long!

737

Soo - How is it that Delta still thinks they can successfully compete against our 717/737 costs with their RJs???

It seems to me this thinking might put them right back in the loss category at a time when they really need to show profits and pay down debt...

 

[Bdfg1]

That's no way to talk about your father! Besides, how did you get out of your trailer anyway?


737

WHAT A GREAT WIT!!!

 

[737 Pylt]

WHAT A GREAT WIT!!!

What a small.....Nevermind.
Hey j4j guy, why don't you go back to your rj and tell all those young cfi's coming up in the ranks how "back in the day" you were da man!
How'd that seniority integration work out for ya?
737

 

[acarpe3448]

Hey 737 Dork,

We all know how well Delta's price wars work. Let's see, while hemorrhaging cash you tried to put US Airways under a few years ago. That worked real well. Brilliant strategic planning on your part.

Almost as bright as giving away miles with the purchase of every order of fries or a frosty from Wendy's!

 

[acarpe3448]

Soo - How is it that Delta still thinks they can successfully compete against our 717/737 costs with their RJs???

It seems to me this thinking might put them right back in the loss category at a time when they really need to show profits and pay down debt...

Why do you care? Worried? It seems you should be jumping for joy! I bet we will see the low cost carriers start running to court crying about Delta's pricing! It's all business my friend! Airtran struck at Delta when we were down, Delta will do the same!