Dl Rfp...

[atlcrjdriver]

With the regional war in a tailspin, has there been any news on the remainder of the DL RFP. You would think that with the summer flying skd rapidly approaching that DL would want all its players in place ASAP.

 

[FUZZO]

My thoughts on everything going on right now and in the last year is that ASA will furlough by the end of the year, possibly fall.

 

[Tarzan]

My thoughts on everything going on right now and in the last year is that ASA will furlough by the end of the year, possibly fall.

Now that one takes the cake!!!

 

[RCA]

The delay of an announcment is most likely being affected by the RFP being pure BULLSH!T.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Comair sent a message to it's employees that since ASA can not staff its operation they will keep 2 CRJ700's and 1 CRJ200 for June, July and possibly longer.

Hopefully the whipsaw of Comair is over.

With Regionals all having staffing problems, why don't they take a break in their unrelenting war against the productive members of their Companies? After all, what have we done to deserve such treatment at our profitable little airlines?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Hopefully the whipsaw of Comair is over.

It's over for CMR, ASA is next on deck. CHQ and ASA are now the highest paid DCI 70 seat operators...... Any solution from Herndon yet.....

 

[John Pennekamp]

It's over for CMR, ASA is next on deck. CHQ and ASA are now the highest paid DCI 70 seat operators...... Any solution from Herndon yet.....

Come on! There's a "Blue Ribbon Panel" on Age 65 (with only one non-mainline pilot). Oh, and the Bilateral Scope Impact Committee. And don't forget the SRSRC. I'm sure they'll just refer it to a committee that will take care of everything!

Our local reps hands are tied on national scope issues.

As I've said before, until the other 45% of ALPA members (pilots who work for "Express" carriers) get equal representation at the Executive Board, nothing will change, and we'll still be second class citizens of our union. Mainline pilot groups each get their own rep. "Express" and small freight carriers make up 45% of ALPA but have to share two reps. Do the math... the deck is intentionally stacked against us.

The whipsaw at our level won't end until ALPA national wakes up and includes us in the group instead of building higher walls to separate us.

 

[CFIse]

It's over for CMR.

Until they get sold in the next 12 months - then they'll be blood in the water..... Anybody who buys Comair is buying them for the contract guarantees that Delta will provide. What happens with ASA and SkyWest will be your guide, but however you look at it, it ain't going to be pretty.

 

[FDJ2]

It's over for CMR, ASA is next on deck. CHQ and ASA are now the highest paid DCI 70 seat operators...... Any solution from Herndon yet.....

Too bad some of the senior lifers at ASA/CMR insisted that their MECs rebuff the DAL MEC Chairman when he wanted to formulate an acceptable flow through program. Working together we might have been able to negotiate a flow through with scope protections. Instead the lifers went for the seniority grab.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Too bad some of the senior lifers at ASA/CMR insisted that their MECs rebuff the DAL MEC Chairman when he wanted to formulate an acceptable flow through program. Working together we might have been able to negotiate a flow through with scope protections. Instead the lifers went for the seniority grab.

That is bull%hit rhetoric!

Why in gods name would we have agreed to a flowthrough/flowback? We told y'all then no because traditionally more flow down than up and there was no real benefit for us. And had we agreed to it most of our pilots would have been put on the street after 9/11 (though none of yours would be furloughed). Look at Eagle and XJet for their "success" with flowthroughs!

As for a seniority grab, a PID requested IAW Alpa's existing merger policy was not a seniority grab. We asked for what the bylaws entitled us, and many who came before us (PanAm/Ransome?) and your group flexed your muscles, cried like babies, threatened to leave Alpa, then eventually got your way and killed it. And ALPA has been on a dead end street to destruction since, because that event is what unleashed whipsaw on the world. And that whipsaw we face has degraded your pay rates, because we were holding up the middle, and you had to fall on us to close the "gap".

So don't give us your DALPA party line about how you threw us a lifesaver and we turned it down!!!

 

[Superpilot92]

Come on! There's a "Blue Ribbon Panel" on Age 65 (with only one non-mainline pilot). Oh, and the Bilateral Scope Impact Committee. And don't forget the SRSRC. I'm sure they'll just refer it to a committee that will take care of everything!

Our local reps hands are tied on national scope issues.

As I've said before, until the other 45% of ALPA members (pilots who work for "Express" carriers) get equal representation at the Executive Board, nothing will change, and we'll still be second class citizens of our union. Mainline pilot groups each get their own rep. "Express" and small freight carriers make up 45% of ALPA but have to share two reps. Do the math... the deck is intentionally stacked against us.

The whipsaw at our level won't end until ALPA national wakes up and includes us in the group instead of building higher walls to separate us.

100 % agree!!

 

[FDJ2]

That is bull%hit rhetoric!

No, it is not.

Why in gods name would we have agreed to a flowthrough/flowback?

Help getting scope, less whipsaw, etc.


We told y'all then no because traditionally more flow down than up and there was no real benefit for us.

Enjoy your time as a WOed of Skywest then.

And had we agreed to it most of our pilots would have been put on the street after 9/11 (though none of yours would be furloughed).

That all depends on how the agreement would have been written, but alas we'll never know, since even discussing it wouldn't have presented your senior lifers with the windfall seniority grab they lusted after.

We asked for what the bylaws entitled us, and many who came before us (PanAm/Ransome?) and your group flexed your muscles, cried like babies, threatened to leave Alpa, then eventually got your way and killed it.

Oh, a little hurt are we? FYI, there was no merger, hence no need to integrate lists since DAL was under no obligation to merge the three companies.
DAL was also free to integrate the lists and merge the companies whenever it wanted to, regardless of whether the DAL pilots wanted it or not.

If, however, your pilot group had successorship language requiring merger when you were acquired, no problem, there would have been a merger. But alas you didn't and now your left with your revisionist history.

And ALPA has been on a dead end street to destruction since, because that event is what unleashed whipsaw on the world.

Yeah, that's it. Had DAL/ASA/CMR merged seniority lists, 9-11 wouldn't have happened, yeilds wouldn't have plumetted, the hyper growth of LCC would never have happened, AMR wouldn't have taken a massive pay cut to avoid bankruptcy, USair wouldn't have enter bankruptcy twice, Katrina wouldn't have hit the oil refineries, Oil would have hit over $70/barrel, DAL, NWA, ATA etc would never have entered bankruptcy. Everything would be rosy.

And that whipsaw we face has degraded your pay rates, because we were holding up the middle, and you had to fall on us to close the "gap".

We weren't competing against you.

So don't give us your DALPA party line about how you threw us a lifesaver and we turned it down!!!

We did, and you did, but your senior lifers chose an ill fated seniority grab instead. Failing that they attempted to undermine the CBA of another ALPA pilot group. Real nice. Luckily cooler heads ultimately prevailed at ASA.

 

[Speedtape]

Too bad some of the senior lifers at ASA/CMR insisted that their MECs rebuff the DAL MEC Chairman when he wanted to formulate an acceptable flow through program. Working together we might have been able to negotiate a flow through with scope protections. Instead the lifers went for the seniority grab.

Are you familiar with the APA/Eagle flow through agreement? Luckily, no one went for such a bone-head deal at ASA/CMR. Otherwise, it would have been ASA/Comair pilots on furlough for the last 4-5 years while the flow through, flowed back! However, the ASA MEC, backed by the ASA pilots, did endorse and strongly encouraged ASA to hire furloughed Delta pilots without forcing them to give up their seniority at Delta. Why??? Because it was the right thing to do--and the ASA MEC asked nothing of the Delta MEC for doing the right thing!

Seniority Grab?--that was a political MYTH created by C.G., the MEC chair at the time, to unify the Delta pilots and redirect that energy to close out the Contract. Prior to the creation of the MYTH, there was no Unity and the negotiations were dragging to a hault. It was a great strategic plan, and it worked--at least to close out the contract.

Flow through--maybe not, but at least 25+ ASA pilots have been hired at Delta in the last 2 months. Maybe Karma is real, and payback is heaven--at least for those 25! ASA pilots have demonstrated that they are willing to share the cockpit with Delta pilots. What's happening is better than the APA/Eagle flow through!

 

[FDJ2]

at least 25+ ASA pilots have been hired at Delta in the last 2 months. Maybe Karma is real, and payback is heaven--at least for those 25! ASA pilots have demonstrated that they are willing to share the cockpit with Delta pilots. What's happening is better than the APA/Eagle flow through!

On that we could agree, but it still might have been preferable to have all DAL newhires as ASA/CMR pilots and all DCI flying flown by ASA/CMR. But alas, we will never know.

 

[~~~^~~~]

FDJ2 - Wow. I don't care where the idea came from, but if the Delta pilots are starting to come around - great!

In the past, the idea of Delta new hires going into RJ's what what the Delta MEC, specifically, Chuck Giambusso objected to. He did not feel that a former military pilot should have to start his Delta career in a "Regional" aircraft. For this reason he lead the charge to remove "operational integration" from ALPA's merger and fragmentation policy. Then he lied at the 2000 Board of Directors meeting about side letters of agreement that ALPA negotiated allowing dual seniority at DCI and Delta, while making up the story of the "seniority grab" to rally his troops.

When John Malone tried to explore just the sort of (good) ideas you mention he was recalled by the Delta MEC.

As is, we ASA pilots who had the opportunity to fly with some truly excellent Delta pilots during their 5 years regional experience are getting a helping hand into Delta. But while this might work for a few of us, it does not help fix our profession.

If we had been stapled in 2000 (as was laid out in ALPA's merger policy) there would still be 11,000+ voting Delta pilots, no one would have been furloughed, the company would have the right sized aircraft to battle JetBlue & AirTran, and we all would have much more job security.

Now, just as then, the secret to success is to work together. This means allowing the regional guys to have a seat at the table when issues involving their pay and working conditions are being negotiated. The Delta MEC (as I understand their current position) would leave ALPA before allowing this to happen.

However, the Comair scope that binds Delta is a start. To be really effective there has to be more participation than just Comair, but it is a start.

 

[Texx]

Too bad some of the senior lifers at ASA/CMR insisted that their MECs rebuff the DAL MEC Chairman when he wanted to formulate an acceptable flow through program. Working together we might have been able to negotiate a flow through with scope protections. Instead the lifers went for the seniority grab.

You might want to get your story straight. Chuck G. wasn't god and he didn't like to play with others.

FYI, it wasn't Chuck that approached, Stava was the one.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

FDJ2 - Wow. I don't care where the idea came from, but if the Delta pilots are starting to come around - great!

In the past, the idea of Delta new hires going into RJ's what what the Delta MEC, specifically, Chuck Giambusso objected to. He did not feel that a former military pilot should have to start his Delta career in a "Regional" aircraft. For this reason he lead the charge to remove "operational integration" from ALPA's merger and fragmentation policy. Then he lied at the 2000 Board of Directors meeting about side letters of agreement that ALPA negotiated allowing dual seniority at DCI and Delta, while making up the story of the "seniority grab" to rally his troops.

When John Malone tried to explore just the sort of (good) ideas you mention he was recalled by the Delta MEC.

As is, we ASA pilots who had the opportunity to fly with some truly excellent Delta pilots during their 5 years regional experience are getting a helping hand into Delta. But while this might work for a few of us, it does not help fix our profession.

If we had been stapled in 2000 (as was laid out in ALPA's merger policy) there would still be 11,000+ voting Delta pilots, no one would have been furloughed, the company would have the right sized aircraft to battle JetBlue & AirTran, and we all would have much more job security.

Now, just as then, the secret to success is to work together. This means allowing the regional guys to have a seat at the table when issues involving their pay and working conditions are being negotiated. The Delta MEC (as I understand their current position) would leave ALPA before allowing this to happen.

However, the Comair scope that binds Delta is a start. To be really effective there has to be more participation than just Comair, but it is a start.

Unfortunately our "scope" becomes meaningless when DL sells us.

On a side note, just got my first check with my new and improved payrate today. OUCH!