DL Mgmt got everything they wanted!

[jetfo]

Except unlimited scope relief and that's coming, just wait!

They wanted $305M and got $290M in concessions.

They got scope relief and down the slippery slope we go!

DL mangement are laughing and toasting their victory while anticipating their soon to come bankruptcy exit bonus and stock options.

Someone tell me something DL mgmt wanted and didn't get!

The only thing the Delta guys have to say about this deal is that it is not as bad as the NWA deal. That's hardly praise. You never know the NWA guys may yet have the guts to vote theirs down.

Who knows, a NWA buyout may be in the works, maybe with the DL guys stapled, wouldn't that be the final insult to a once proud airline.

Not gloating, just disappointed in the continued downward slide.

 

[spitfire1500]

You sound surprised!!!

 

[jetfo]

You sound surprised!!!

I guess I shouldn't be, just disappointed.

I suppose like other airlines, the pilots and MEC talks big and votes yes anyway.

 

[Heavy Set]

Except unlimited scope relief and that's coming, just wait!

They wanted $305M and got $290M in concessions.

They got scope relief and down the slippery slope we go!

DL mangement are laughing and toasting their victory while anticipating their soon to come bankruptcy exit bonus and stock options.

Someone tell me something DL mgmt wanted and didn't get!

The only thing the Delta guys have to say about this deal is that it is not as bad as the NWA deal. That's hardly praise. You never know the NWA guys may yet have the guts to vote theirs down.

Who knows, a NWA buyout may be in the works, maybe with the DL guys stapled, wouldn't that be the final insult to a once proud airline.

Not gloating, just disappointed in the continued downward slide.

I really doubt that. Watch any union between those two airlines with that as a stipulation unwind very quickly. That would be the quickest way to kill both airlines if the previous strike authorization was any indication - I can just imagine the work slowdown or potential strike if that were to happen...

I agree with the downward slide - it is very disheartening... Makes the fractional (Netjets) and corporate worlds seem far more appealing...

 

[~~~^~~~]

The only thing the Delta guys have to say about this deal is that it is not as bad as the NWA deal.

Who knows, a NWA buyout may be in the works,

And if that happens the NWA deal will be the "Delta" deal.

I think it would be better to be a furloughed Delta 737 pilot than a Northwest pilot flying RJ's at Compass when the integration happens.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Right after 9/11 Delta was stronger financially than AA. AA pilots took pay cuts and furloughed big, and parked a bunch of airplanes. But the Delta guys helped their company run thru cash hoping for better days.

I say the Delta pilots who couldn't run away by retiring are getting the best they can get right now. This moment was inevitable when they decided to hold onto their industry leading contract in the face of insufficient revenue.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I think it would be better to be a furloughed Delta 737 pilot than a Northwest pilot flying RJ's at Compass when the integration happens.

Interesting side question---

Who would you rather be furloughed from right now? AA, DAL, UAL, USAir or NWA.

I'd rather be furloughed from UAL right now. AA is a second but USAir is running close. If AA wasn't working on parking airplanes and improving productivity it would place higher. In fact, maybe I should place USAir higher just under UAL. Not sure.

NWA and DAL are too scary right now. DAL could jump up into a close second behind UAL with the right circumstances. Don't know enough about NWA. I don't think I would want to go to Newco.

 

[MQAAord]

Someone tell me something DL mgmt wanted and didn't get!

14% paycut instead of 19%


Oooooooo. Yippie.

 

[cl604driver]

hopefully the delta pilots will vote it down.. what is the point in even going through all of this pre strike talk and what you are going to do if they throw out your pensions and etc. You might as well given them what they wanted to begin with beacuse the difference now is only about 10-15 million. was all this ( I'm going to strike) worth 10 million. Stand up and vote it down is what i say, the he11 with management

 

[GogglesPisano]

Interesting side question---

Who would you rather be furloughed from right now? AA, DAL, UAL, USAir or NWA.

.

My God, in 6 years we've gone from, "Who would you rather to get hired by?" to "Who would you rather be furloughed from?"

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

hopefully the delta pilots will vote it down..

Very unlikely.

 

[General Lee]

Except unlimited scope relief and that's coming, just wait!

They wanted $305M and got $290M in concessions.

They got scope relief and down the slippery slope we go!

DL mangement are laughing and toasting their victory while anticipating their soon to come bankruptcy exit bonus and stock options.

Someone tell me something DL mgmt wanted and didn't get!

The only thing the Delta guys have to say about this deal is that it is not as bad as the NWA deal. That's hardly praise. You never know the NWA guys may yet have the guts to vote theirs down.

Who knows, a NWA buyout may be in the works, maybe with the DL guys stapled, wouldn't that be the final insult to a once proud airline.

Not gloating, just disappointed in the continued downward slide.

Here's what they did NOT get:

1. 19.5% pay cut
2. Delete 401K company contribution
3. 5 year duration of contract
4. Delete all furlough protections
5. No financial returns for pay cuts
6. $325 million per year and no recognition of DB plan
7. 79 seat DCI aircraft
8. Delete change of control provisions
9. Establish sick leave reliability program and impose draconian sick leave
terms.
10. Minutes under block offset by minutes over block
11. 15 minute release per duty period
12. No Captain on relief crew for flights over 12 hours
13. Change max scheduled duty time
14. Change duty period minimum
15. Delete duty period average
16. delete duty period credit (1 for 2)
17. Delete OJI--On the Job Injury claims
18. increase category freeze for new aircraft training--from 2 years to 3
19. 100 seater upgrade provisions--FOs could only go to Captain on plane
20. change trip assignment ladder
21. Reserves assignment up to ALV+15
22. Delete payback for X-days for reserve
23. Reduce inverse assignment pay from double pay to time and 1/2
24. Establish Flt attendant satellite base parking with no benefits to pilots


Sounds like they didn't get everything they wanted. The only work rule change they got was 60 min check in for Hawaii flights. IF they had gotten some of those other work rule changes, a lot more furloughs would result. But, I am still disappointed with the lack of help for our furloughed pilots. That means NO.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[snow-back]

I believe in previous negotiations, the company wasn't giving DALPA any credit for the "likely" termination of the defined benefit pension. With Letter 51, credit is given, although I'm not sure how much. That could potentailly be a large chunk of $290 million/yr. I wouldn't put too much weight in any dollar figure quoted.


That being said, I'd vote "NO"...if I could.

SB

Except unlimited scope relief and that's coming, just wait!

They wanted $305M and got $290M in concessions.

They got scope relief and down the slippery slope we go!

DL mangement are laughing and toasting their victory while anticipating their soon to come bankruptcy exit bonus and stock options.

Someone tell me something DL mgmt wanted and didn't get!

The only thing the Delta guys have to say about this deal is that it is not as bad as the NWA deal. That's hardly praise. You never know the NWA guys may yet have the guts to vote theirs down.

Who knows, a NWA buyout may be in the works, maybe with the DL guys stapled, wouldn't that be the final insult to a once proud airline.

Not gloating, just disappointed in the continued downward slide.

 

[007]

Here's what they did NOT get:

1. 19.5% pay cut
2. Delete 401K company contribution
3. 5 year duration of contract
4. Delete all furlough protections
5. No financial returns for pay cuts
6. $325 million per year and no recognition of DB plan
7. 79 seat DCI aircraft
8. Delete change of control provisions
9. Establish sick leave reliability program and impose draconian sick leave
terms.
10. Minutes under block offset by minutes over block
11. 15 minute release per duty period
12. No Captain on relief crew for flights over 12 hours
13. Change max scheduled duty time
14. Change duty period minimum
15. Delete duty period average
16. delete duty period credit (1 for 2)
17. Delete OJI--On the Job Injury
18. increase category freeze for new aircraft training--from 2 years to 3
19. 100 seater upgrade provisions--FOs could only go to Captain on plane
20. change trip assignment ladder
21. Reserves assignment up to ALV+15
22. Delete payback for X-days for reserve
23. Reduce inverse assignment pay from double pay to time and 1/2
24. Establish Flt attendant satellite base parking with no benefits to pilots


Sounds like they didn't get everything they wanted. I am still disappointed though on the lack of help for our furloughed pilots. That means NO.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Don't forget, after the group signs it in, they'll get your pensions too.

 

[Tomct]

All I can say is Good Luck! I hope it does not pass, but I believe that it will!!
Good Luck to ALL!

 

[General Lee]

Don't forget, after the group signs it in, they'll get your pensions too.

Yes, they will. But, they will have to give us a $650 million note, to be divided among the 6000 pilots and distributed directly into the IRA of your choice (could be $60-70,000 for FOs, over $100,000 for Captains), and we also have unsecured claims for about $2.1 billion, which could add another $400 million I believe. Everyone that could take something away has already left. On top of that, they have to give everyone a flat 9% contribution each month (9% of whatever you make that month) towards your own personal DC plan, and also maintain an additional 2% 401(K) cash contribution. Which means 11%. Not bad.


That is not too bad for the rest of us, unless you were 49 years old when they were still allowing lump sums to be doled out if you were 50. I have flown with some of those guys and they aren't very happy. But hey, they are now 777 Captains.

I still don't like the way they treated our furloughed pilots, and I plan to vote NO.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BID]

Did some guys throw in the towel at 49 and get a lump sum? If so how much did they get and can you even do that?

Sorry, I know very little about a pension plan especially since I never expect to have one.

 

[AA717driver]

I really doubt that. Watch any union between those two airlines with that as a stipulation unwind very quickly. That would be the quickest way to kill both airlines if the previous strike authorization was any indication - I can just imagine the work slowdown or potential strike if that were to happen...

Yeah, you wouldn't want the pilots of a bankrupt airline acquired by another airline to be stapled would you...?

I guess the Delta pilots are genetically superior and, therefore, deserve better treatment than the TWA pilots got? TC

 

[ohplease!]

I guess the Delta pilots are genetically superior and, therefore, deserve better treatment than the TWA pilots got? TC

You better believe THEY REALLY DO believe that. Always have, always will. I think its a NAVY inbreeding thing although, I'm not sure of that.

 

[General Lee]

Did some guys throw in the towel at 49 and get a lump sum? If so how much did they get and can you even do that?

Sorry, I know very little about a pension plan especially since I never expect to have one.

To get your lump sum or any retirement, you needed to be atleast 50 years old. So, guys that were 49 at the time could do nothing . But, even if you were 51 or 52, there was a chance you wouldn't get anything other than your lump sum (remember, the lump sum was only HALF of your pension, the other half would come in monthly checks), and you needed to be 53 to enable you to try to get your full pension. Many 50, 51, and 52 year olds just took their lump sum (half) and went and did something else or flew for someone else. We only have 250 guys now over age 55. Why they didn't leave with their $1 million lotto ticket, I have no idea?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Lucky Strike]

Here's what they did NOT get:

1. 19.5% pay cut
2. Delete 401K company contribution
3. 5 year duration of contract
4. Delete all furlough protections
5. No financial returns for pay cuts
6. $325 million per year and no recognition of DB plan
7. 79 seat DCI aircraft
8. Delete change of control provisions
9. Establish sick leave reliability program and impose draconian sick leave
terms.
10. Minutes under block offset by minutes over block
11. 15 minute release per duty period
12. No Captain on relief crew for flights over 12 hours
13. Change max scheduled duty time
14. Change duty period minimum
15. Delete duty period average
16. delete duty period credit (1 for 2)
17. Delete OJI--On the Job Injury claims
18. increase category freeze for new aircraft training--from 2 years to 3
19. 100 seater upgrade provisions--FOs could only go to Captain on plane
20. change trip assignment ladder
21. Reserves assignment up to ALV+15
22. Delete payback for X-days for reserve
23. Reduce inverse assignment pay from double pay to time and 1/2
24. Establish Flt attendant satellite base parking with no benefits to pilots


Sounds like they didn't get everything they wanted. The only work rule change they got was 60 min check in for Hawaii flights. IF they had gotten some of those other work rule changes, a lot more furloughs would result. But, I am still disappointed with the lack of help for our furloughed pilots. That means NO.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General-
Looks like you guys got considerably better TA than we did. I think everyone realizes we were going to get a concessionary deal...the point being , how much to concede? Our MEC Chairman admitted that NWA was overreaching...then later advised voting 'YES' for the TA? This is only one reason why he may be recalled very soon.

Hope things work out for the BOTH of us!

 

[jetfo]

Yes, they will. But, they will have to give us a $650 million note, to be divided among the 6000 pilots and distributed directly into the IRA of your choice (could be $60-70,000 for FOs, over $100,000 for Captains), and we also have unsecured claims for about $2.1 billion, which could add another $400 million I believe. Everyone that could take something away has already left. On top of that, they have to give everyone a flat 9% contribution each month (9% of whatever you make that month) towards your own personal DC plan, and also maintain an additional 2% 401(K) cash contribution. Which means 11%. Not bad.


That is not too bad for the rest of us, unless you were 49 years old when they were still allowing lump sums to be doled out if you were 50. I have flown with some of those guys and they aren't very happy. But hey, they are now 777 Captains.

I still don't like the way they treated our furloughed pilots, and I plan to vote NO.

Bye Bye--General Lee

I guess that's better than nothing, but certainly not what it was or should be.

 

[jetfo]

General-
Looks like you guys got considerably better TA than we did. I think everyone realizes we were going to get a concessionary deal...the point being , how much to concede? Our MEC Chairman admitted that NWA was overreaching...then later advised voting 'YES' for the TA? This is only one reason why he may be recalled very soon.

Hope things work out for the BOTH of us!

This should be a good example why the NWA TA should be voted down! Perhaps the DTW LEC chair should be elected MEC chair.

 

[surplus1]

In the event that it does NOT pass, what will the Delta pilots get that they don't get in this TA?

The MEC approved the TA by a vote of 12-1. I wonder if there is something they know that you don't?

 

[General Lee]

In the event that it does NOT pass, what will the Delta pilots get that they don't get in this TA?

The MEC approved the TA by a vote of 12-1. I wonder if there is something they know that you don't?

The scope provisions were a no cost item. So, I think we could try to get the 76 seaters posponed (at 70 seats) until the furloughed guys get back. But, I think there will be some recalls regardless. It will be interesting.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Deacon]

Here's what they did NOT get:

1. 19.5% pay cut
2. Delete 401K company contribution
3. 5 year duration of contract
4. Delete all furlough protections
5. No financial returns for pay cuts
6. $325 million per year and no recognition of DB plan
7. 79 seat DCI aircraft
8. Delete change of control provisions
9. Establish sick leave reliability program and impose draconian sick leave
terms.
10. Minutes under block offset by minutes over block
11. 15 minute release per duty period
12. No Captain on relief crew for flights over 12 hours
13. Change max scheduled duty time
14. Change duty period minimum
15. Delete duty period average
16. delete duty period credit (1 for 2)
17. Delete OJI--On the Job Injury claims
18. increase category freeze for new aircraft training--from 2 years to 3
19. 100 seater upgrade provisions--FOs could only go to Captain on plane
20. change trip assignment ladder
21. Reserves assignment up to ALV+15
22. Delete payback for X-days for reserve
23. Reduce inverse assignment pay from double pay to time and 1/2
24. Establish Flt attendant satellite base parking with no benefits to pilots


Sounds like they didn't get everything they wanted. The only work rule change they got was 60 min check in for Hawaii flights. IF they had gotten some of those other work rule changes, a lot more furloughs would result. But, I am still disappointed with the lack of help for our furloughed pilots. That means NO.


Bye Bye--General Lee

#24 is huge

talked to two Delta buddies they are voting "hell no" we'll see though what they say and do ......