DL/DALPA agree to recall schedule

[N2264J]

DL/DALPA agree...

Can you please post a reference to the ASA/Comair financial information you quote. I'm genuinely interested in seeing how the SJP report. Thanks.

You bet.

http://www.bts.gov/press_releases/

 

[FDJ2]

Re: DL/DALPA agree...

You bet.

http://www.bts.gov/press_releases/

When you're assigned a profit by the mainline and subsidized by the mainline it's easy to be profitable. Meanwhile DAL continues to pay off the large RJ debt that keeps on accumulating.

 

[sandman2122]

Furlough again

I won't be surprised when Delta starts recalling that:

1. Delta continues to lose millions every quarter.

2. Delta goes Chapter 11.

3. Furloughes pilots again.

4. Your guess is as good as mine at this point.

I hope this doesn't happen, but I won't be surprised either.

 

[N2264J]

Re: DL/DALPA agree...

When you're assigned a profit by the mainline and subsidized by the mainline it's easy to be profitable. Meanwhile DAL continues to pay off the large RJ debt that keeps on accumulating.

Are you implying that Delta is submitting fraudulent documentation to the government? I don't think that's allowed. Do you think Delta is subsidizing Skywest for example or Eagle or Atlantic Coast? For that matter, is United, American, Air Tran or Continental subsidizing their RJ operators? They're all making a profit.

Comair and ASA were buying our own planes and paying our own bills before we were bought. The only thing that's changed since then is the marketplace tanked and we've been growing so the company can better match capacity to a weak demand. It doesn't make sense to me that the company would expand an unprofitable division of the corporation as we all head toward bankruptcy.

There doesn't seem to be any empirical data to support your claim other than a Michelle Burns remark at a pilot meeting. But feel free to correct me and show us where Delta is cooking the books.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

46J,
You could write for an hour and he still won't get it.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

oops, sorry, 64J!!!

 

[FDJ2]

Re: Re: DL/DALPA agree...

There doesn't seem to be any empirical data to support your claim other than a Michelle Burns remark at a pilot meeting.

DAL SEC filing:

Delta expects to have capital expenditures of approximately $1.1 billion in 2004. This includes approximately $500 million for aircraft

$500M in 2004 for RJs.

Yes it's a fact that DAL pays the RJ debt you can see it in any SEC filing. I'll take Michele Burn's, DAL's CFO, public statement at face value. Are you stating that she lied? ASA and CMR are in fact subsidized by DAL. ASA and CMR only pay direct operating costs. No there is no fraud in a parent company assigning certain profits to a wholly owned, as long as in the long run all the revenue and costs are accounted for. In DAL's case, a large part of the costs of the RJ operation are paid by the parent company DAL. However, if you are so concerned about DAL going into BK, you could through your MEC voluntarily take a pay cut and adjust your work rules to be more in line with MESA. I'm sure every little bit helps

 

[letthebigdogeat]

I'm getting pretty tired of these arrogant mainline SOBs. Just cut us loose! Let us grow and buy 100 seaters and we'll be your worst nightmare come true. Instead of working things out maturely together and try to come to reasonable solutions, this finger pointing and immature talk has to start all over again.

 

[Palerider957]

Amen brother......

ASA and Comair have ALWAYS made money, always. I'm pretty tired of mainline arrogance as well. You DAL types want to waste time pointing fingers at RJ driver, go ahead. It will be little comfort when GG takes DAL to CH 11 with absolute dissolution of your PWA.

Mainline is SO convinced that ASA/CMR are the enemy, but they fail to realize that they are their own worst enemy. To those of you at the bottom or middle of seniority list--your senior guys will sell you out in a second, it's already happeneing. Any major deal will only have to allow the senior Capts. to retire with all of their perks, the middle seniority will have some incentive (something less than absolute rape), 50.1% will vote yes, then watch as the junior most pilots are cast to the abyss.

Arrogance, self-righteousness, contempt, will come back to haunt DALPA. Eventually you will look around and realize it's the man next to you who sold you out--judas. without so much as an "I'm sorry." Whoever is driving an RJ will seem (accurately) totally irrelevant.

This is a fundamental struggle for survival, and you haven't even figured out who you are fighting.

 

[Bill Mostellar]

I'm getting pretty tired of these arrogant mainline SOBs. Just cut us loose! Let us grow and buy 100 seaters and we'll be your worst nightmare come true.

Who's code will you fly?

 

[FDJ2]

I'm getting pretty tired of these arrogant mainline SOBs.

And than you said:

Instead of working things out maturely together and try to come to reasonable solutions, this finger pointing and immature talk has to start all over again.

Nice glass house littledog.

BTW, it wasn't my PWA that allowed me to be a wholly owned subsidiary it was yours that allowed you to become one and it's not up to me to cut you loose. In the meantime Mother Delta will continue to subsidize you.

 

[Bill Mostellar]

Mainline is SO convinced that ASA/CMR are the enemy, but they fail to realize that they are their own worst enemy.

I don't know a single Delta pilot who considers DCI pilots the enemy. However, I can't say that regarding their opinion of those who support RJDC.

Arrogance, self-righteousness, contempt, will come back to haunt DALPA.

No, a blind acceptance of managment's perspective would come back to haunt us. Fortunately, DALPA is patiently analyzing the situation.

This is a fundamental struggle for survival, and you haven't even figured out who you are fighting.

You're right - it's a struggle for survival and you ain't the enemy.

 

[Pez D. Spencer]

Who's code will you fly?

Return volley ---

after chapter 11, whose (sorry, who's) code will you fly?

 

[letthebigdogeat]

FDJ2,
I'm not going to come down to your level. Your time is coming. Just wait and see. Oh BTW it's and then, not than. But hey I'm only a regional pilot, not worthy of correcting you.

Bill,
RJDC is the best thing that has happened to me. Finally an organization that looks injustice in the eye and confronts it head on. ALPA's day in court is once again fast approaching. When (If you do) you commute home, most of the regional guys at ASA and COMAIR are part of RJDC, so I suggest you keep your opinion to your self.

This industry is changing slowly but surely. It just kills me to listen to some of you arrogant people who still think you're better than us regional pilots. WE'RE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT!!! Instead of fighting eachother, let's try and fight our way through this difficult time together, as a team. It's just fortunate that I don't have to rely on some of you to go to war with, because quite frankly I don't know if I could trust you.

Screw the code. Give me my own operating certificate and for the right price I'll take your people gladly away from you.

 

[AA717driver]

I've heard that the DALPA payscale isn't the only thing in management's sights.

The Comair pay is starting to attract attention, too.

As for the recalls, I think for anyone who has gotten a decent job while on furlough, returning for this particular reason will be a tough sell. If DAL had a plan to grow and they were recalling, great, take the recall and enjoy your career.

Returning now seems risky unless you are wearing an orange apron. IMO.TC

 

[letthebigdogeat]

COMAIR is not going to give a penny! We as ASA brothers to COMAIR will neither!

And regarding the DAL furloughs, I personally would hang this one out. You're already given the option, so please do it. I want to see you back in the cockpit, but just wait this one out. There are just too many uncertainties at this point.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Re: Re: Re: DL/DALPA agree...

DAL SEC filing:

However, if you are so concerned about DAL going into BK, you could through your MEC voluntarily take a pay cut and adjust your work rules to be more in line with MESA. I'm sure every little bit helps

FDJ2,

This is, at best, an absurd idea (read: stupid). You and all other mainline pilots should NEVER advocate lower pay at the regionals. The only thing that this lower pay equates to is a more attractive outsourcing alternative to your mainline flying. The domino effect is a loss of flying at mainline, more furloughs, and fewer future mainline opportunities for those of us who want that option.

Time to step out of that myopic little world for a minute

 

[Bill Mostellar]

Bill,
RJDC is the best thing that has happened to me. Finally an organization that looks injustice in the eye and confronts it head on. ALPA's day in court is once again fast approaching. When (If you do) you commute home, most of the regional guys at ASA and COMAIR are part of RJDC, so I suggest you keep your opinion to your self.

I like to hear our jumpseaters' opinion on such matters, whether I agree or not. FWIW - my statement regarding RJDC was about other Delta pilots' perceptions of those who support RJDC, not my own.

This industry is changing slowly but surely. It just kills me to listen to some of you arrogant people who still think you're better than us regional pilots. WE'RE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT!!! Instead of fighting eachother, let's try and fight our way through this difficult time together, as a team. It's just fortunate that I don't have to rely on some of you to go to war with, because quite frankly I don't know if I could trust you.

As I said, you're not the enemy.

As to war - been there, done that.

Screw the code. Give me my own operating certificate and for the right price I'll take your people gladly away from you.

You don't have any flying outside the Delta code. You're making a big assumption that you'd be able to sustain your current operations without the Delta code.

Edited because it sounded harsher than I intended

 

[Bill Mostellar]

after chapter 11, whose (sorry, who's) code will you fly?

Take a look at the other carrier's who've gone to chapter 11 - they're still flying their own code. However, once it gets in the hands of a judge, anything is possible. Unfortunately, if we loose protection of our code, I imagine DCI would as well. It could get very ugly for all of us.

 

[letthebigdogeat]

Bill,
Enough said. I really don't have the time to play this kindergarden ping pong ball game of you this and I that.
I just think it's extremely unfortunate that some of our pilot group members can't maturely discuss certain topics without being antagonized. Good luck........