Disturbing crash

T

The Natural

Does anyone know the background to this crash?

It looks like a caribou with turbine mod, My first guess is a CG aft problem.

It saddens me to witness the death of our fellow brothers in flight and the destruction of a beautiful plane. Please only constructive comments, so we may learn something from this. As is likely someone here may know the pilots.

Rest in Peace.


http://www.big-boys.com/articles/oldplanecrash.html
 

aucfi

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Aft CG (unstable load)?
Stuck Elevator?
Heart Attack?

Indeed tough to watch...
 

414Flyer

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Took off with gust control locks engaged
 

westwind

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A quick search on the NTSB site didn't show anything remotely like this accident on the date shown on the camcorder, but two days prior, it showed a Fairchild 227 crashing in a similar fashion in Hot Springs, Ark. Looks a bit like the plane in question. Maybe the camcorder date is wrong if it isn't the Caribou Crash? Just wondering. http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X15405&key=1 If not the crash in question, somewhat similar anyway. Sad, no matter what.

Yep, it definitely looks like the Caribou. Had to (painfully) watch it again to be sure.
 
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W.S.C.O.D.

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the video looks FAKE!

Looks like an aircraft off M.S. flight sim (or a mod of one).
No tail number?
Plane crashes on todays date in 1992?

Just my opinion....
 

wrxpilot

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W.S.C.O.D. said:
the video looks FAKE!

Looks like an aircraft off M.S. flight sim (or a mod of one).
No tail number?
Plane crashes on todays date in 1992?

Just my opinion....
It's a real accident, it happened in Manitoba, Canada. That's why it's not in the NTSB. Strange coincidence on the date though.
 

avbug

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Perhaps the most notable comment in the pdf report is a paragraph which states:

"During the post accident autopsy, a knob from the gustlock handle was found embedded in the captain's right wrist. The TSB concluded that the captain was attempting to operate the gust lock handle when the aircraft hit the ground."

That the pilot, the son of the owner and a less experienced pilot that the man originally slated to fly that mission, died during a preventable accident evoloution is unfortunate. But an important undertone that may be missed is the fact that he didn't stop trying to fix the problem until impact. He was unsuccessful, but he never gave up, even in the few short remaining moments of his life. He failed to ensure the controls were free prior to departure, and for that he paid with his life. But I do think that one paragraph underscores an increadibly powerful point that's easily masked by the drama of the accident, and that is merely that the pilot fought to regain the airplane right up until impact.

I do like the concluding comments to that article, which states:

"The message really should be clear to everyone--our safety system is strong, but it cannot withstand direct assaults caused by treating safety as an exception."
 

aucfi

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Gust lock? Watch the video, you can see the elevator moving as if the pilot rotated. Watch the outboard side of the horiz stab surface.
 

wrxpilot

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aucfi said:
Gust lock? Watch the video, you can see the elevator moving as if the pilot rotated. Watch the outboard side of the horiz stab surface.
Read the TSB report I linked to. As I understood it, the gust luck is setup such that you can have the lock engaged and still have elevator movement IF the lock was initially engaged w/ the elev in a non-neutral position. Once the elev controls move past neutral, the lock is engaged. That's probably why you saw movement.
 

aucfi

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Read the TSB report I linked to. As I understood it, the gust luck is setup such that you can have the lock engaged and still have elevator movement IF the lock was initially engaged w/ the elev in a non-neutral position. Once the elev controls move past neutral, the lock is engaged. That's probably why you saw movement.
Sorry, missed the link. Thanks
 

LearLove

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I should know better for posting this but i will anyway:


What if after rotation but before the nose yawed over to the right if the capt or FO pulled the throttles back? maybe that would have pitched over the nose and they could have kept the nose pointed somewhat down the runway with rudder and stall/pancaked it onto the runway instead of holding power in and getting suct a high AOA.
just a thought, not ment to QB.
 

DX Rick

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W.S.C.O.D. said:
the video looks FAKE!

Looks like an aircraft off M.S. flight sim (or a mod of one).
No tail number?
Plane crashes on todays date in 1992?

Just my opinion....
Yep, all this was made up. Fake video, fake report. All for a MS flight sim video. You are the next Inspector Clouseau
 

avbug

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What if after rotation but before the nose yawed over to the right if the capt or FO pulled the throttles back? maybe that would have pitched over the nose and they could have kept the nose pointed somewhat down the runway with rudder and stall/pancaked it onto the runway instead of holding power in and getting suct a high AOA.
just a thought, not ment to QB.
If the report is accurate, they couldn't achieve full power anyway, assuming that the modifications hadn't precluded that possibility in the airplane. From the analysis, one can infer that the controls probably didn't lock until they were pointed up; they were unlocked to start the roll, but not fully, and passing through neutral, they locked. At that point, the aircraft appears to have been beyond any hope of salvation that might have been achieved by a power reduction.

The reporter states that while the control lock release was embedded in the captain's hand, it may have been his attempt to release it, or his hand may have slid forward on impact, from it's natural position on the throttles.

I suspect that based on the little bit of known information, a power reduction at that high an angle of attack, when the controls actually locked, would likely have done nothing more than resulted in a stall and a nearly identical accident...or at least the same conclusion. Nobody will know for certain, but what is known is that they had precious little time to think about it or work it out.
 

LearLove

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the only reason I say/ask that is several years ago I remember a story about a guy getting checked out for banner towing (somewhere on Long island or the NJ shore). As he came in for a pick-up he got low and bounced the hook off the ground. As he pulled out the hook came around and wrapped itself aournd the elevator so that he couldn't pitch down.

With full power and the elevator up he was in the same situation as the carabou, (I think he was in a super cub or citabria) but he pulled the throttle back which pitched the nose over. On the way down as things sped back up the elevator became effective again (in the stuck up position) and pitched the nose up enough so the aircraft hit level and bounced then gound looped into some bushes off the side of the pick-up area. The pilot got out looked at the tail and walked away from what I was told.

I don't know the whole thing could be made up just what I was told in an FBO one day while flying 135 years ago.
 

avbug

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There's a big difference between the altitude required to do that in a large airplane and a small airplane like a supercub, as well as the reaction of either...and I think it would be a stretch to suggest that the supercub was in the same situation without the ability to compare them directly and the means to make the comparison "equal."
 

erj-145mech

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The Natural said:
It looks like a caribou with turbine mod, My first guess is a CG aft problem.
Those were the stock R-3350's, not the turbo prop mod. After the aircraft passes the camera location, you can see the augmentor tubes on the wing upper surface. The turbine mod (Buffalo) also has a "T" tail and the engine cowlings look like a Grumman C-2 because the exhaust duct is on the outboard.
 

wrxpilot

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erj-145mech said:
Those were the stock R-3350's, not the turbo prop mod. After the aircraft passes the camera location, you can see the augmentor tubes on the wing upper surface. The turbine mod (Buffalo) also has a "T" tail and the engine cowlings look like a Grumman C-2 because the exhaust duct is on the outboard.
I wish people would at least read the linked TSB report before making comments like this. It is a turbine conversion. Doesn't even remotely sound like a radial anyway.
 
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erj-145mech

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T-Gates said:
This might be another mod...if you listen to it with the sound on, those are not radials...
You're right, I enhanced the video and took a look at the cowlings and installation. It is a turbo-prop installation. I was mistaken.
 

VNugget

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In case anyone missed it, the video is fake.
 
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