Dispatching...where to go from here?

[bgaviator]

Ok, this is going to be a lengthy post with a lot of parts to it so bare with me. I am looking for advice as to what I should be thinking when it comes to advancing my career.
First, a little background about myself. I'm 27, work in Ohio for one of the fractionals (I'm not going to say which one) as a "dispatcher."
I've only been with the company for a little over a year....the starting pay was better than the regionals, but that was basically to lure you in the door. I had a raise last year of under 3%, they've recently raised the cost of our benefits, and they've decided to add a lot more work to our department and aren't planning on increasing our pay at all! The added workload is due to a merger between two departments, and the crappy part is, the people coming from the other department are going to get to retain their senoirity so we are all effectively taking a drop in seniority after putting in over a year's time with the company. I am very nervous about the future of our company, and I've started looking towards an exit strategy. I'm really trying to ask myself, what should I put more emphasis on....I mean, I am making more money by staying with a fractional....but at the same time, it's not part 121 experience....so if I plan on making dispatching my career, do I really need to take a step backwards in pay, in order to take more steps forward towards the ultimate goal with my career? So here I go with my questions that hopefully some of you can answer. Feel free to private message me if you don't feel comfortable answering these questions on the public board.
#1. Should I stick it out with my current company until I at least have 2 years in? I know sometimes airlines value time with a company more so than if my work was in a 121 environment or not. Or should I just get out while I can?

#2. Can anyone working as a dispatcher for the airlines tell me the scoop? I'm going to list off some airlines I'm thinking about applying to, or have already applying to, and if I could get some feedback on these that would be great....

-Comair/I hear the dispatchers make pretty good money compared to that of other regionals, however I have heard to stay away from applying until they get stabilized and figure all these pilot talks out.

-Airtran/I applied here once and got an email saying that they were not considering me as a candidate even though I met the requirements according to their web site. Is this a company that absolutely wants 121 experience? Would it be best to apply as a flight follower, and hope to slide into a dispatch position that way?

-Skywest/I have heard that this is a good company, however I am not wanting to move to an isolated place like St. George. My wife is trying to get her teaching career going, and I think a place like that would not provide many opportunities for her. Frankly, I think Skywest made a mistake by establishing headqaurters in such an isolated spot.

-Southwest/I have heard that you have to already work for them in another positions before they will consider you for a dispatching position. I applied as a scheduler a few weeks ago, but haven't heard anything back.

-Jetblue/It looks like I meet the requirements according to their web site, however I'm reluctant to move to New York City for $50,000/year pay.....that's a very big move for me.

-PSA Airlines/Well, I'm originally from Dayton, so moving back home would be easy....however I am reluctant because I would be taking a pay hit, and it seems like the turnover is high because they are always posting positions it seems....maybe this is just due to expansion?

-Chatauqua/I don't know anything about the city of Indianapolis...I would take a pay hit....Just don't know enough about the company I guess.

-Mesa/NO WAY! Heard about the pay.

-Frontier/Never see any dispatcher postings...what's the deal here?

-ASA/Same as frontier....what's the deal?

So after listing these places I am thinking about...any advice or comments would be appreciated. Especially looking forward to hearing from people who work at these companies.

 

[homerjdispatch]

You may want to give SkyWest another look. SGU is isolated, but only to a small extent. You are less than 2 hours drive from Las Vegas. As for your wife, SGU is the second or third fastest growing city in the U.S. Teaching opportunities are everywhere (but utah pays their teachers squat).

SkyWest didnt make a "mistake" locating its headquarters here. It started here a tiny operations flying from SGU-SLC in small single engine airplanes....


As for everyone else, I have no clue...

PM me for more info on SkyWest if you want.

 

[bgaviator]

Well, your reasoning doesn't really seem to jive.
First of all, being two hours away from the nearest major city is what I call being isolated. Not very convienent in terms of trying to find something to do on just some weeknight.
And second, if they are growing so quickly, Utah would pay their teachers more....not sqaut. When you are in high demand, the pay reflects that....teachers going to Florida for instance are getting decent signing bonuses, and housing benefits from the school districts because they are in such high demand.
I also am shying away from Skywest because I did a quick search for apartments one time, and they almost all start at $1,000/month. that's ridiculous unless Skywest is going to start pay at $35-40k/year.

 

[gooseman13]

Three pieces of advice I have:
1. If you're able to get on at a "major" or "national" type carrier I would do it over a regional.
2. Make quality of life a top priority, even if it means sacraficing some money.
3. Be sure to do due diligence on a company before you sign on with them. Ask lots of questions in the interview, try to spend an hour in the SOC, ask questions on this forum, etc.

 

[homerjdispatch]

Well, your reasoning doesn't really seem to jive.
First of all, being two hours away from the nearest major city is what I call being isolated. Not very convienent in terms of trying to find something to do on just some weeknight.
And second, if they are growing so quickly, Utah would pay their teachers more....not sqaut. When you are in high demand, the pay reflects that....teachers going to Florida for instance are getting decent signing bonuses, and housing benefits from the school districts because they are in such high demand.
I also am shying away from Skywest because I did a quick search for apartments one time, and they almost all start at $1,000/month. that's ridiculous unless Skywest is going to start pay at $35-40k/year.

Ok I live here!!! I know how fast the city is groing, in fact here is an article for you. http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/22/real_estate/Fastest_growing_metro_areas/index.htm
right from CNN.

Also, do some research on teacher salaries in utah. You havent done too much research. Many teachers move out of state due to those great offers from other states, unfortunatly Utahs legisators would rather spend Utah tax dollars and surplus on other things.
here is an article just yesterday that quotes utahs gov on teachers salary:

http://www.kcpw.org/article/2570

You are right about the pay being low..but thats the way regional airlines go right now....

here is onother story bout SGU
http://www.inc.com/magazine/20060501/boomtowns-small.html

Ranked #2

 

[RJAA]

Surely SGU isn't the end of the world if you are married. Being single it probably is.

 

[MONKEY]

bgaviator,
Just one little bit of advice... When you come on a message board and ask for advice and information and someone comes on and gives you the information you are looking for, it might be a good idea to resist the temptation to argue with them and tell them that they have faulty logic.

My guess is that Homer will let the people who do the hiring in his department know what he perceives to be a problem with your attitude. If this is the case that would be one bridge burned, but on the bright side, one less option you would have to consider.

Now you may think, oh well I didn't go to SkyWest anyway, but look at what you have already said. You attacked your current company and then attacked the guy trying to help you. I can tell you now if I were doing the hiring at my airline I wouldn't hire you based on your attitude. You might be a great guy, but that's not what you are showing here.

 

[rvsm410]

To Answer your company questions

Its been a very long time since I have posted....I agree with Homer on SGU..it is a very beautiful place, and close to LAS...the QOL is a big consideration..

As to Florida...I live here, 29 years, the teachers are starting to get paid better but the cost of living here has dramatically increased over the past 4 years..possibly 25%!...Orlando is now has one of the highest Murder rates in the country..I stay away from there....
On the airline side...well you have some cargo carriers which are not hiring..(MIA) and shady, you have Spirit, the require 3 years of 121 time....pay is $30K to start.
Then you have Airtran...I worked for them...as a coordinator for crews..in the SOCC, dispatchers there must have 5+ years of 121, they avgerag more, to even be considered by S.W...they have one flight follower on duty per shift..not alot of turn over there..I had no chance to dispatch there and left, you have to know someone to get in there.....can help here if you need a POC. but no guarantees they will even contact you.

As to the others, here ya go, first hand experience:

Comair..taking pay hits...turn over is starting...you have the scoop.

SWA, again you are right..be a ramper and get in line for a ADX job...I heard there are over 30 at the company with licenses waiting for their shot.

JBU, Very expenssive to live there..you better know someone to get a call, they love NYers working there....they start in the low $40's

PSA, You have the picture there.

CHQ, Starting pay $12.48 an hour, have pretty good bennefits, HDQT in no longer at the Arpt, now in downtown, all 3 airlines are on different floors, share seniority, but can not move to the other company...cst of living, pretty cheap...could have a chance..not much turn over...they are geting more acft in 3 months.

Mesa: $10.89 an hour..non union shop...need I say more..PHX is fairly expensive to live....

Frontier, I have no info on them..

ASA, Worked for them...good group of people decent pay, I believe starting if now $14.92, ATL is reasonable to live in...not much turn over there yet...I dont have the scoop anyore on the SKywest affects on the department..maybe Homer could help you there...As to hiring they dont lict ADX jobs..you have to know someone, I can help you there, if you need a contact.....

I have many more......I have a friend that works for a Frach in Ohio, if it who I think, I would think real hard about leaving....you have it pretty darn good there....

 

[rvsm410]

bgaviator,
Just one little bit of advice... When you come on a message board and ask for advice and information and someone comes on and gives you the information you are looking for, it might be a good idea to resist the temptation to argue with them and tell them that they have faulty logic.

My guess is that Homer will let the people who do the hiring in his department know what he perceives to be a problem with your attitude. If this is the case that would be one bridge burned, but on the bright side, one less option you would have to consider.

Now you may think, oh well I didn't go to SkyWest anyway, but look at what you have already said. You attacked your current company and then attacked the guy trying to help you. I can tell you now if I were doing the hiring at my airline I wouldn't hire you based on your attitude. You might be a great guy, but that's not what you are showing here.

Good advise, real good....several years ago I Unintentionally sent mixed messages to Skywest and Homer ( long Story, not going there )...it was really an honest mistake of circumstances, but it appeared that I had been less then honest...these people dont know me from adam, but the perception was negative, damage done and I have been persona non grata since....I would love to work for Skywest, but this is just not going to happen....you my friend need to remember this is a small community, and we all talk....Personally if you worl for say NJA, well you have it great when you look at comparisons... Good luck

 

[bgaviator]

I am not trying to burn bridges by questioning a place like St. George. I am merely trying to make sure any place I consider moving to, that it's going to be a place I am going to want to stay at for awhile. Sorry if I was sounding too aggressive.

 

[clr4theapch]

Good information

Don't sweet it, we all have been there at one time or another....I know RVSM410....he is a real good guy, never seen a mean bone in his body, he has been through the gambit of airline interviews in search of that magic fit we all seek, I call him the "great interview hunter", as I know of nobody as successful in getting in front of managers than him.
I was lucky and was able to move to my current company just before all the 911 stuff happened.....RVSM just missed it...but he has the 411 on airline interview gouges, POC's etc...

Basically it does not sound like you will be happy with the earning potiential of many of the regional airlines, ASA and Skywest seem to be the tops in that catagory, Express Jet, our connection carrier is also a good fit, and HOU is pretty reasonably priced....As RVSM for the 411 on ExpressJet, you might get the soc manager to look at you, I dont know if they are needing dispatchers, but its a start....

Good hunting....

 

[asqmatt]

ASA, Worked for them...good group of people decent pay, I believe starting if now $14.92, ATL is reasonable to live in...not much turn over there yet...I dont have the scoop anyore on the SKywest affects on the department..maybe Homer could help you there...As to hiring they dont lict ADX jobs..you have to know someone, I can help you there, if you need a contact


Here at ASA we have had alot of turnover this last year. Probably 20-30 new dispatch. They just got done with a class a couple of weeks ago, so wait acouple of months and I am sure they will have another. The only downside over here is the pilots contract negotiations. They are refusing ac for minor bs stuff.

 

[twabudman]

what about Skybus.....they are starting up in Ohio

 

[bgaviator]

skybus

I have applied there already....I think they are really looking for people with at least 3 years experience since they are a new startup. Who knows how long it will be before I find out anything from them. We'll see if they even get off the ground, and then what their stability will be like after that. These are the same people who tried to start Heartland Airlines out of Dayton and it never got off the ground.

 

[XPOO]

Word of advice, please do not move to St. George. If you don't like it before you come, you never will. Not being mean, just being honest. We've seen too many people come in and work for a few months and leave because they couldn't adjust.

More to add on what Homer has already said, this airline is constantly growing so seniority will gain quickly. The pay is definitely not industry-leading, but the benefits are excellent and the abilities we have to trade/drop our shifts/days at a moments notice are also nice. Bidding is done in three month increments and you work 4 10's.

 

[sir5list]

asqmtt said: Here at ASA we have had alot of turnover this last year. Probably 20-30 new dispatch. They just got done with a class a couple of weeks ago, so wait acouple of months and I am sure they will have another. The only downside over here is the pilots contract negotiations. They are refusing ac for minor bs stuff.

ASA had allot of turnover in the last 18 months (lost 14 total - not the mentioned number above). Lost dispatchers to the majors based on the experience of operations ASA provides, which is what the majors look for! The number of dispatchers hired in the last 18 months was 11 - not the stated 20-30. ASA provides good training, ATL living, great flight bennies, good health bennies - if you want to send a resume, send one - be proactive, don't wait for a post on any site!

 

[bgaviator]

applying to ASA

I tried looking on their web site. No information on dispatch jobs. Not even information on where you can send in a resume for future consideration. What a bummer.

 

[NSW]

For the most part, I say take the job where you can get it. If you're a good dispatcher and you keep your nose clean, you can write your own ticket after 2 years, sometimes less. In the grand scheme of things, that is no time at all to live someplace that isn't your dream destination.

Another strategy that would work is: where do you want to be long-term? If you think for example that you want to live in Florida, you can ask the right questions around here to find out that, say AirTran or Spirit tend to hire dispatchers away from the same 4-5 regionals much of the time. There's your short list.

You've already been warned but it bears repeating - this business is a small town. Everyone knows everyone. One phone call or e-mail from a hiring manager to his drinking buddy can make or break your next job. Even the most talented dispatchers out there couldn't get out of paying their dues. On the other hand I've seen plenty who figured they were too good for where they were, and they worked themselves right out of the industry.

 

[clr4theapch]

Leaders and followers

For the most part, I say take the job where you can get it. If you're a good dispatcher and you keep your nose clean, you can write your own ticket after 2 years, sometimes less. In the grand scheme of things, that is no time at all to live someplace that isn't your dream destination.

Another strategy that would work is: where do you want to be long-term? If you think for example that you want to live in Florida, you can ask the right questions around here to find out that, say AirTran or Spirit tend to hire dispatchers away from the same 4-5 regionals much of the time. There's your short list.

You've already been warned but it bears repeating - this business is a small town. Everyone knows everyone. One phone call or e-mail from a hiring manager to his drinking buddy can make or break your next job. Even the most talented dispatchers out there couldn't get out of paying their dues. On the other hand I've seen plenty who figured they were too good for where they were, and they worked themselves right out of the industry.

I agree with you for the most part (99%), but in this changing world of airlines and cut throat salarys and bennes there are many Dx out there that are just tired of being walked on personally and as a group....Sometimes it only takes a few people to foster changes in the way the HR and Management types think about us, or the future new hires...

There are many syndromes in this business, many attitude of "it's always been done like this" which I feel has contributed greatly to the degradation of the dispatch profession...we all know the dispatch schools will continue to pump up and pump out new licensed dispatchers looking for that 6 figure income at a major airline( Whatever that is anymore) and they know they will have fresh roadkill to abuse and underpay for years, at least thats the way it has always been.....I say it time for these newbies to NOT just take any 121 job that come along.....they need to be educated in the effects they have on their own career and the downstream problems they promote by accepting some of these offers...
Getting back to my original point, I believe there are many current longtime dx'ers that are used to their routine, they paid there dues for a few years under the (current) old way of doing things and this comfort zone tends to make us all followers...followers of the old way, which is is no longer producing the results in pay or progression that we used to have or expected, this is now the bad way for us all. We need a shift in thinking by us and especially the management...
Occasionally these days we hear or see some people that want to effect changes, think outside of the Old box, try to make things better for dispatchers where they work, and even in rare cases for the whole dispatch industry as a whole.....they are not afraid to break the zones of silence, go up against the old way of doing business, ask for a fresh look at better ways, even to their own demise, I call these types the new leaders for change in the dispatch world...I agree some are bad, but many are really good people.

We all know changes are going to happen sooner or later, these people are trying to be apart of how these changes are formed, it may not ever help them in their careers, it may even end their career but maybe it will help the future of those coming....and for those of us that have a long way to go to retirement...I for one applaud them for there moxie It really ashame more don't get on board in this direction.....I am guilty as well....JMHO

 

[hoover]

As with all things, the right move for you depends on your goals. What are your goals. Then maybe we can provide advice.

 

[bgaviator]

.........goals

My goal in short is to work for a major airline and be "stable." Whatever that is, right?
I'm tired of moving from place to place, and I'd really like to be making enough money to "settle down" somewhere so my wife and I can start our family.

 

[abxdx]

Have you thought about a 121 CARGO carrier. The pay at these airlines is usually slightly better than regionals and you can get heavyjet experience...

You might want to look at places like ATI, Kallita, Centurion,Polar, World, Gemini,Evergreen etc..... Some of these carriers might overlook no 121 exp. if you WOW them in the interview, and some will take anybody with a pulse. I won't lie to you, they are not places you want to stay long term, but a good stepping stone.

A cargo job could lead to UPS or FEDEX. Personally I would rather work cargo it is more stable.

They are also a good way to get International experience, wich always looks good on a resume....

 

[abxdx]

If you want stable, I would not work for a Major!!!!

 

[bgaviator]

.....cargo

Yes, I have thought about it.
Usually though these cargo companies are located in either places I really have no desire to live, or the cost of living is extremely high for what they pay is. I think Gemini is in Dulles, and I can't afford to live there.

 

[propsarebest]

Where do you want to live??

 

[abxdx]

There are alot of small cargo carriers in MIA. I believe ATI is in MCI. And Evergreen is in Oregon, a small town, Kallita is in Yipsilanti MI.... Polar and Atlas are New York and you are right Gemini is in Dulles, but I believe World is in a suburb of ATL. You don't have to live 5 minutes from work, I have commuted at least an hour for most of my 13 yr career in the airlines....

 

[abxdx]

Are you at EJA?

 

[abxdx]

Just took a quick look!


Evergreen, in Mcminnville Oregon.
World Airways
Kallita Air
Miami Air
Ryan Air in RFD IL

These places are all hiring crew sked... Kallita is hiring a flight follower. It is a way in, if you can hack it you can probably get into DX.. Or just keep an eye out, all these companies periodically hire dispatchers...

 

[bgaviator]

......

well I'd ultimately like to live in places where my wife will be able to find teaching work fairly easily.....so Texas, and Florida would be perfect for us since their populations are exploding and they are in desperate need of teachers. I tried applying for Airtan and was sent an email saying after consideration that I was not going to be selected as a candidate...probably because of my low experience. I have put in for ExpressJet and American Eagle, but no word from them yet.

 

[homerjdispatch]

well I'd ultimately like to live in places where my wife will be able to find teaching work fairly easily.....so Texas, and Florida would be perfect for us since their populations are exploding and they are in desperate need of teachers. I tried applying for Airtan and was sent an email saying after consideration that I was not going to be selected as a candidate...probably because of my low experience. I have put in for ExpressJet and American Eagle, but no word from them yet.

Thats the ticket!!! Make the old lady bring in the money....Nothing beats being a stay at home dad...except maybe a stay at home dad without any kids!!!!