Discussion on AirTran T.A. - STAY ON TOPIC

[Guppy Guy]

Well, I think most of us, including myself, were willing to fight this to the end. But, life is fluid and things change. As soon as the SWA deal was announced the NMB told us there was no way we would ever be released. The only leverage a labor group has is the withdrawal of service. The NMB said they would not allow that to happen. No leverage means we take what is being offered. The way I see it, we can take this OK offer and move on to bigger and better things(SWA) or we can turn it down and let management put the $$ in their pockets (and then move on to better things(SWA)). I choose to put the money in my pocket and then move on.

Am I happy that I got played by management for the last 5+ years? No way! But that's life, time to move on.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Well, that pretty much sums it up. Going into year six FO pay so I get a $20/hr bump. Reserve Ca's and senior Ca's getting screwed. Signing bonus is a joke. What am I going to do, vote this down and watch the union spin it's wheels for six months trying to get the company to give more right up to the point where the deal closes? It doesn't make sense to me. The no voters are entitled to be PO'd because this deal was designed to be a 51 percenter. Somebody was going to get tossed under the bus. You can say we should have negotiated like the SWA deal never existed but that's like trying to convince yourself moving to MKE is good by telling yourself it never snows.

 

[Whataburger]

Lear70,

So there can be only one thread about any one subject, period? Can we talk about Morris or Muse?

 

[Lear70]

What is the time frame for voting?

Allegedly Nov 20th-30th or thereabouts. Effective date for nearly everything in the T.A. starts Dec 1st, so the voting will be geared to end before or on Nov 30th so it can be officially ratified and in place for Dec 1st.

Lear70,

So there can be only one thread about any one subject, period? Can we talk about Morris or Muse?

I didn't say that, Mr. Smartypants...

Just no SLI comments in a non-SLI thread. There's the other Southwest-AAI thread about the SLI if someone wants to continue to discuss the SLI or you can start a NEW thread about the SLI. Just keeping the same rules as UAir/AWA threads we've had in place for half a year and applying them to this merger as well.

That said, if Morris or Muse have any bearing on AirTran's T.A., go ahead, as long as it doesn't discuss the SLI.

 

[Muppets]

Well, I think most of us, including myself, were willing to fight this to the end. But, life is fluid and things change. As soon as the SWA deal was announced the NMB told us there was no way we would ever be released. The only leverage a labor group has is the withdrawal of service. The NMB said they would not allow that to happen. No leverage means we take what is being offered. The way I see it, we can take this OK offer and move on to bigger and better things(SWA) or we can turn it down and let management put the $$ in their pockets (and then move on to better things(SWA)). I choose to put the money in my pocket and then move on.

Am I happy that I got played by management for the last 5+ years? No way! But that's life, time to move on.

Just on retro you will take home 7000 after uncle sam gets his. If you have been here for the whole contract negotiation of 5 yrs thats 1400 a year in retro (roughly). Even further...thats $120 bucks a month. And....hold on for this one guys.........4 Fing dollars a day! For the last 5 years. The company just bought you a value meal at McDonalds (almost). Good Job-Keep up the good fight. Im voting NO.

 

[Muppets]

Oh wait..thats captains heres some more simple math for us FOs at the Tranny
5400 after uncle sam
1000 per year for retro (Last 5 years)
90 dollars a month
3 dollars a day

A retro pay of 90 dollars a month! For the last 5 years........insulting. I dont need the money or the insult. Again...vote no.

 

[Guppy Guy]

I couldn't agree more. It's insulting. The alternative is to vote NO and get nothing. We have no leverage, the fight is over, time to move on. If you think that there is any way to reopen this negotiation and get a better deal before the SWA deal closes I'd love to hear it. There is not. Not without the support of the NMB. Those are the facts. As they say, "it is what it is".

 

[Muppets]

I couldn't agree more. It's insulting. The alternative is to vote NO and get nothing. We have no leverage, the fight is over, time to move on. If you think that there is any way to reopen this negotiation and get a better deal before the SWA deal closes I'd love to hear it. There is not. Not without the support of the NMB. Those are the facts. As they say, "it is what it is".

Where does it say the NMB wont support us? DO you honestly think the NMB walked into a room and said "we dont support the pilots of AT if this TA fails." I have trouble believing that- your union wants you to believe that and from reading your post... i guess you do. When we discuss a TA and the turd that our union just put forth we cannot consider options that "may" be on the horizon (swa). We need to be as solid a group now that we were last summer and work on current negotiations. Worry about the closest croc to the boat.

 

[Guppy Guy]

Why shouldn't I believe what the union is telling us? What would be their motivation for lying to us? Their accounts have been accurate and honest throughout this whole process. I don't doubt their analysis. I don't see any conspiracies. I'm not trying to convince anyone to vote one way or the other. Simply stating the facts as I see them and making a decision based on that. We fought the good fight. We can hold our heads high. We were begging to be released and fight to the end. Circumstances changed (ultimately for the better) and now we move on. That's how I see it. Anyone is welcome to disagree with me. I'm guessing about 25% will.

 

[AFcitrus]

Based on the TA'd pay rates, I will have lost $95,000 just in hourly pay over the last 5.5 years. Throw in another $9975 in lost 401k money and $8000 in emergency sick bank hours, Additionally I'll be back on reserve after holding a line for 1.5 years. Oh, I'm going to get roughly $10,000 in Retro pay for my losses. There's do doubt this TA was designed by the company and FO heavy MEC to get virtually all of the FO vote by giving them virtually all of the money. (incidentally I do agree they should get the highest % hourly increase but not the retro bonus as well) The company will get very close to a 51% vote if not a little higher. The FO's well deserved pay raises will be subsidized out of the CA's pockets instead of the company's.

Having said that, I do believe the TA will pass. But I am voting NO because if the SW deal falls through we will be screwed big time for the next 10 years. I won't be able to look my co-workers or the rest of industry in the face knowing I contributed to such a debacle. If the SW deal goes through then the question will be moot.

Let's face it voting in favor of this because of the possible SW deal would be like flying to a destination with a 10% chance of not being able to land there and not carrying any alternate fuel because of the 90% chance of it being ok.